Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Theroadlesstravelled]

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

A handful of Labour MPs did vote against them.
Up here the SNP / Greens collectively are bound to vote in favour, and opposition parties don't want to be seen as uncaring and lose more ground against the SNP in the popularity stakes. A total sham.

Listening to Alex Cole-Hamilton and Jackie Baillie, the Lib Dems and Labour would go even further.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

9 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

A handful of Labour MPs did vote against them.
Up here the SNP / Greens collectively are bound to vote in favour, and opposition parties don't want to be seen as uncaring and lose more ground against the SNP in the popularity stakes. A total sham.

Listening to Alex Cole-Hamilton and Jackie Baillie, the Lib Dems and Labour would go even further.

"Care more" optics. Nothing more.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

In all of this I'm reminded of what someone once said about Gordon Brown when he finally got his chance to be PM and royally fucked it up overnight.
Imagine spending your whole life trying to achieve a particular career objective. You burn the midnight oil, sacrifice family and a social life in the process. To get there you need to lose friends, make enemies and they pile up in your debt column but the focus is on the prize and that's all that matters. And then one day, the stars align and you achieve your life's goal. The job is yours. The tears and pain were worth it............and within days you realise you are completely and criminally useless at it and hopelessly out of your depth.
I imagine this is exactly how Sturgeon, Swinney and Humza must be feeling right now.
They strike me as being perfectly decent people.
And if I'm right about them being perfectly decent people, they'll be sitting at home right now with maybe a mug of tea or a brandy, staring at the roaring fireplace or perhaps a wall in their front room. And realising deep in their hearts that they are absolutely the wrong people for the jobs they are in but there's no realistic way out of it.
Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep until my resignation letter had been written, distributed to the press outlets, my bags were packed and I was on my way back to my home where I could try and find something more suited to my ability (not writing porn films before ANYONE starts up).
I also imagine this is how the likes of Ferguson, Deepti, Pagel, Sridhar, Michie and all the others must be feeling too when they turn off the lights at night. They can all brazen it out under the media spotlight but you cannot bullshit your inner self.
And if all of them weren't such insufferable c***s, I might even feel sorry for them.

When you started off there I thought you were describing Johnson.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Mrs. B just told me a story that had me howling.
Her boss has Covid.  He caught it at a party at his cricket club.  (25 out of 75 attendees have tested positive).
Turns out the guy that allegedly brought it into the cricket club party had been at another party the night before.  At his previous party they’d been using those balloons you blow up, let them go, then they fly round the room making noise until you pick them up, blow them up again and repeat the cycle.
How fucking stupid would you have to be to think the balloons were a good idea?

The balloons blowing them up?

[ICTChris]

 

[Billy Jean King]

In all of this I'm reminded of what someone once said about Gordon Brown when he finally got his chance to be PM and royally fucked it up overnight.
Imagine spending your whole life trying to achieve a particular career objective. You burn the midnight oil, sacrifice family and a social life in the process. To get there you need to lose friends, make enemies and they pile up in your debt column but the focus is on the prize and that's all that matters. And then one day, the stars align and you achieve your life's goal. The job is yours. The tears and pain were worth it............and within days you realise you are completely and criminally useless at it and hopelessly out of your depth.
I imagine this is exactly how Sturgeon, Swinney and Humza must be feeling right now.
They strike me as being perfectly decent people.
And if I'm right about them being perfectly decent people, they'll be sitting at home right now with maybe a mug of tea or a brandy, staring at the roaring fireplace or perhaps a wall in their front room. And realising deep in their hearts that they are absolutely the wrong people for the jobs they are in but there's no realistic way out of it.
Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep until my resignation letter had been written, distributed to the press outlets, my bags were packed and I was on my way back to my home where I could try and find something more suited to my ability (not writing porn films before ANYONE starts up).
I also imagine this is how the likes of Ferguson, Deepti, Pagel, Sridhar, Michie and all the others must be feeling too when they turn off the lights at night. They can all brazen it out under the media spotlight but you cannot bullshit your inner self.
And if all of them weren't such insufferable c***s, I might even feel sorry for them.

Waited all rgeir life.....out their depth.

They have been in power for well over a decade and have just recently been re-elected in a landslide. The public clearly dont share your view. You make it sound that the SNP had only just come to power in the last few months. As has been said umpteen times on here it's miles from being representative of general public opinion. Like it or loathe it the public gave them a ringing endorsement and have done for as long as many posters will even remember.

[sparky88]

7 hours ago, Frankie S said:

 

Has the Scottish government thought this through? If physical distancing and maximum group sizes / household limits per group returns, then nightclubs won’t be able to operate, unless they repurpose themselves (again) as socially distanced bars. That’s that sector shuttered again. Live gigs can’t take place, (other than socially distanced gigs, and everyone knows that’s a non-starter), and upcoming gigs currently booked in Scotland will have to be cancelled / rescheduled, while the English dates of U.K. tours carry on as normal.

 

It's all advisory. Nothings being cancelled. Gigs and stage shows are still happening as far as I can see. The tories told the SNP to piss off when they asked for money to shut businesses so they aren't shutting. So you know have the ridiculous situation of limits on care home visits but sold out shows at the hydro. 

SNP had the opportunity to budget for more COViD theatre and chose not to do so in their budget passed recently. It's their own fault. 

[renton]

On the one hand, Sturgeon's briefing yesterday was a total fudge and, with out access to Furlough, the time you are likely to buy in terms of slowing the virus down is going to be a day or two at most while at the same time imposing a lot of strain on certain sectors like hospitality.

On the other hand, as others have noted this isn't just a case of politicians posturing for optics. The Rt/immune escape for Omicron clearly has a number of Public Health professionals spooked - and not just ours, as it looks like other nations are tightening up on restrictions at the moment.

So the data they have, that they interpret for the politicians suggest this has the potential to be an issue. The information coming out from from SA is still evolving, with some more positive data at least about Pfizer protection than was originally thought. Meanwhile the latest information suggests a virus that is 30% less severe but that wouldn't balance outagainst the predicted Rt.

The hope is that Omicron is generally a lot less severe. As much as 'we just don't know' has become a punchline on this thread, the data is still incomplete on what we can expect - hospitalisation and death data from SA is still lagging, yet the Rt looks to be confirmed. Meanwhile, in London which is described as the epicentre for Omicron in England is showing a fair old growth in cases now - up to 12,000 yesterday.

The good news is that Scotland and the UK generally were already well into a booster programme. Alongside the observed benefits of mixing and matching vaccine types for boosters and the increased pace of boosters is the best we can do to see this strain off.

The die is largely cast for this, however. Only fairly severe restrictions had an impact on previous strains and up against the alleged higher Rt here, only extremely early and severe restrictions would likely have provided a brake against this. Either the booster impact prevents major hospitalisations or the strain on the NHS is going to show.

What is required as we pass to an endemic phase of this virus is a far more global attitude to vaccinating the population. Omicron apparently developed because it had access to a highly immune compromised population. Clearly, their welfare is our welfare.

 

[Paco]

 

This is clearly the case and it’s obvious from Sturgeon/Drakeford’s words as well as Whitty’s doom-laden trip round MPs yesterday that current advice is to go much, much further than we currently are. Hospitals closing their doors as Whitty claims is possible will not be prevented by facemasks or vaccine passports to nightclubs.

So we’re now at a stage where either the models are wildly wrong, governments get lucky and this is all going to be mostly OK. Or we’re already completely fucked and headed for everything-but-schools closing for a few weeks in the New Year. Both seem possible depending on which early data turns out to be right.

[Billy Jean King]

BBC reporting that they expect the new regs to be announced effective from Saturday for retail will see a return to queues outside Supermarkets. If true that is utterly ridiculous in a highly vaccinated population in a setting where masks are still a legal requirement. It's totally undermining their main mitigations.

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

BBC reporting that they expect the new regs to be announced effective from Saturday for retail will see a return to queues outside Supermarkets. If true that is utterly ridiculous in a highly vaccinated population in a setting where masks are still a legal requirement. It's totally undermining their main mitigations.

 

Queuing up to get at the empty shelves?

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

BBC reporting that they expect the new regs to be announced effective from Saturday for retail will see a return to queues outside Supermarkets. If true that is utterly ridiculous in a highly vaccinated population in a setting where masks are still a legal requirement. It's totally undermining their main mitigations.

England, Scotland or both?

[NotThePars]

In all of this I'm reminded of what someone once said about Gordon Brown when he finally got his chance to be PM and royally fucked it up overnight.
Imagine spending your whole life trying to achieve a particular career objective. You burn the midnight oil, sacrifice family and a social life in the process. To get there you need to lose friends, make enemies and they pile up in your debt column but the focus is on the prize and that's all that matters. And then one day, the stars align and you achieve your life's goal. The job is yours. The tears and pain were worth it............and within days you realise you are completely and criminally useless at it and hopelessly out of your depth.
I imagine this is exactly how Sturgeon, Swinney and Humza must be feeling right now.
They strike me as being perfectly decent people.
And if I'm right about them being perfectly decent people, they'll be sitting at home right now with maybe a mug of tea or a brandy, staring at the roaring fireplace or perhaps a wall in their front room. And realising deep in their hearts that they are absolutely the wrong people for the jobs they are in but there's no realistic way out of it.
Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep until my resignation letter had been written, distributed to the press outlets, my bags were packed and I was on my way back to my home where I could try and find something more suited to my ability (not writing porn films before ANYONE starts up).
I also imagine this is how the likes of Ferguson, Deepti, Pagel, Sridhar, Michie and all the others must be feeling too when they turn off the lights at night. They can all brazen it out under the media spotlight but you cannot bullshit your inner self.
And if all of them weren't such insufferable c***s, I might even feel sorry for them.

I don’t think Sturgeon, Yousaf and Swinney feel that at all they’ve been vindicated pretty consistently by public opinion, polling numbers, the recent storming election results, their own party’s recent divisions being largely resolved through a voluntary exit of the cranks, and even the opposition broadly falling in line behind them at every turn. Even a media generally hostile to their end goal is currently more deferential when compared to the coverage Johnson is currently getting.

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

I don’t think Sturgeon, Yousaf and Swinney feel that at all they’ve been vindicated pretty consistently by public opinion, polling numbers, the recent storming election results, their own party’s recent divisions being largely resolved through a voluntary exit of the cranks, and even the opposition broadly falling in line behind them at every turn. Even a media generally hostile to their end goal is currently more deferential when compared to the coverage Johnson is currently getting.

 

Aye, I think they'll look back with satisfaction. Even privately, there's not many politicians who will regret much. It's not how they're wired.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Sergeant Wilson

[PedroMoutinho]

12 minutes ago, Paco said:

So we’re now at a stage where either the models are wildly wrong, 

Tbh I’m struggling to think of an occasion when the models have been anywhere close to accurate 

[Billy Jean King]

England, Scotland or both?

Scotland

I'd love to know the rationale behind it as there has been zero requirement for any contact tracing in a shop environment so how they can have any data to suggest it's a main vector for spread is beyond me. Staff masked, vaccinated (mostly) and behind screens, customers vaccinated (mostly) masked and following daft 1 way systems and still it's not enough so they feel the need to limit access with customers left queuing in the pissing wet freezing cold of winter. Suggests to me they must be the singular biggest spreaders but there will be zero data to back that up. Total nonsense.

[101]

8 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Just to sort of add to the above (I was tpying as your post appeared), although I am aware I didnt actually give you a specific answer of what to do now .... I'm not hearing a lot of "until" which is my issue. 

Restrictions until booster program reaches X% coverage?

Restrictions until Hospital capacity is increased?

Restrictions until X and Y therapeutic gets approval?

Restrictions until additional hospital staff are trained?

The only until that is absolutely no valid is "Until covid goes away". Because that isnt happening. 

They have absolutely no fucking idea how to let go of the measures they took when the situation was wildly different, new and unprecedented but for me they need to let go, commit to the transition to endemicity. This idea that this restriction or that restriction can make the differnce is utterly nonsensical. It doesnt bear any form of scrutiny. 

FWIW, I think and hope the tide of public opinion is turning. I think and hope media scrutiny might begin coming their way because of the reaction to omicron. I think the SNP have really overplayed this one, and people are seeing through it. 

I do think untils are difficult to nail down because of the virus' nature to change in places where there is high transmission. But it would be nice to hear their thinking.

That said if Omicron really has got an r rate of nearly 4 the vast majority of people will end up with protection from 3 boosters and natural infection you would imagine this gives us just about as much protection as anyone could hope for so I do think come February we will be in a different space.

I guess when it comes to restrictions there are direct and indirect benefits so yes advising people not to have their work Christmas parties probably won't have much effect but it might reduce the strain on folk getting taken to A&E, it's likely to reduce the absence rate amongst public sector workers who the rules, ought to more thoroughly apply.

As for public opinion, can't see it, all the major political parties in Scotland broadly support the current way it's being dealt with Labour seem to want to go further.

The press are itching for more restrictions and spent Fri-Tues talking up restrictions to the detriment of everyone only for a limited package to be announced.

The public are largely supportive of what's going on and those that aren't are unlikely to take to the streets in meaningful numbers and if they do they will no doubt be brandished as "Covid deniers" or whatever other nonsense.

Personally one thing we can all be doing is pressuring MPs to get the UK government to supply vaccines abroad driving down the rates of infection and therefore turning it into an endemic and reducing the chances of variants emerging. My worry with that is you turn the global south into an Epidemic that the word closes it's doors on whilst we are in a far better place.

[Jan Vojáček]

Working from home? That won't make a difference.

"Stop the football" - That'll sort it.

The Record's Facebook page once again producing the goods.

[NotThePars]

Aye, I think they'll look back with satisfaction. Even privately, there's not many politicians who will regret much. It's not how they're wired.

I don’t think shows like Succession, The Thick if It or Veep are miles off the mark. It wouldn’t surprise me if yer Gordons* etc just hate the public rather than thinking they did anything wrong.

*Brown and S