Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[sparky88]

1 hour ago, Abdul_Latif said:

Pretty sure all the current fear peddling is the justification for bringing in vaccine passports in England.

In the same way SG said it’s vaccine passports or nightclubs have to stay shut, WM will  go with it’s vaccine passports or possible lockdown.

A rowing back of restrictions in England would be a complete disaster for the Tories electorally (who am I kidding CON +7)

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

As much as that is true, when I am considered a statistic, it will still be government failings that caused the situation, not the public themselves.

Absolutely.  

[williemillersmoustache]

4 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

As much as that is true, when I am considered a statistic, it will still be government failings that caused the situation, not the public themselves.

Absolutely true and I think the comment about a "national mobilisation" is a criticism of government not the public.

Whether you think mask wearing is effective or not, advising the wearing of masks in crowded indoor places but every day on TV ministers not wearing masks in indoor crowded places, along with multiple PM only Xmas bubbles, Barnard Castle and Hancock's hand shandy all corrode the notion of collective national effort. 

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

why the f**k should we shut schools? if that is what your suggesting?  hardly any kids get seriously ill from covid, let them  get it, not even the full time mummy brigade want blanket closures cause their wee precious has got the snifflys

It's the quickest way to bring down case numbers, which is what seems to have concerned the NHS Confederation. 44% of cases last week in England were in Under 20s, particularly in the older part of that age group. Take action here and the infection rate will fall. 

I agree that kids very rarely become seriously unwell with it, but that age group is driving the current infection rate and will also be having an impact on older demographics too by spreading it. 

24 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

The NHS Confederation have said that "we should try to achieve the kind of national mobilisation that we achieved in the first and second waves, where the public went out of their way to support and help the health service.".
The number of patients in hospital now is 7.7k.  At the peak of the first wave APril 6th there were 17.7k patients in hospital.  At the peak of the second wave, January 18th, there were 39.2k patients in hopsital.
The seven day average of deaths now is 124.  At the peak of the first wave, April 10th, the seven day average of deaths was 942.  At the peak of the second wave, January 20th, the seven day average of deaths was 1248. 
It's a completely different scenario - it's awful for the people who are ill and their families and it's very difficult for the people looking after them but it's a fundamentally different situation.

This narrative really pisses me off. The NHS is there to protect the public - not the other way about.

Totally agree with this.

Unfortunately, the NHS is Britain's unofficial state religion and commands a degree of deference that no organised religion in the UK manages. Millions went and clapped at fresh air for it last year, for example, and about 3.5% of the total UK workforce is employed by the NHS. It's the only thing in the country that's almost universally liked and therefore holds a lot of sway. Politicians know this full well, hence the opportunistic use of it to justify coronavirus measures and restrictions. 

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

The NHS Confederation have said that "we should try to achieve the kind of national mobilisation that we achieved in the first and second waves, where the public went out of their way to support and help the health service.".

The number of patients in hospital now is 7.7k.  At the peak of the first wave APril 6th there were 17.7k patients in hospital.  At the peak of the second wave, January 18th, there were 39.2k patients in hopsital.

The seven day average of deaths now is 124.  At the peak of the first wave, April 10th, the seven day average of deaths was 942.  At the peak of the second wave, January 20th, the seven day average of deaths was 1248. 

It's a completely different scenario - it's awful for the people who are ill and their families and it's very difficult for the people looking after them but it's a fundamentally different situation.

They are talking about avoiding a high January peak by acting now though so that comparison isn't irrelevant. 

The issue is how big the next peak will be under various potential restrictions. 

[Todd_is_God]

When did it become within the remit of the NHS to call for speculative restrictions that could impact on private businesses?

[Todd_is_God]

7 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I agree that kids very rarely become seriously unwell with it, but that age group is driving the current infection rate and will also be having an impact on older demographics too by spreading it. 

Anyone looking at this graphic to try to decide where the best place to introduce restrictions to reduce case numbers and coming up with any answer other than "schools" has gone into the question with a predetermined answer.

The question isn't "where should we put restrictions" but rather "is it really necessary to bring case numbers down amongst this demographic?"

[No_Problemo]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Kids getting covid clearly isn't a problem. No-one surely believes it is? But if "case numbers" is the headline figure being used to put pressure on the government to re-introduce restrictions, and over 40% of cases currently are in school children, then schools are where the restrictions need to be to have any meaningful impact on "case numbers"

That the full time mummy brigade would prefer pubs and football grounds to be closed so that they can still get peace whilst their offspring go to school is irrelevant. If they screech for restrictions to "get cases down", then they can deal with the consequences of those restrictions being imposed in the most impactful way to achieve this.

The knock on harms in terms of closing schools are pretty huge - particularly for vulnerable children. 
 

I think we have all agreed that nothing should be shut, otherwise when will it ever stop. 
 

The NHS need to stop fucking moaning and get on with their job, complain about increasing resource levels but stop asking the public to stop living their lives to make yours easier. 

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

The NHS Confederation have said that "we should try to achieve the kind of national mobilisation that we achieved in the first and second waves, where the public went out of their way to support and help the health service.".
The number of patients in hospital now is 7.7k.  At the peak of the first wave APril 6th there were 17.7k patients in hospital.  At the peak of the second wave, January 18th, there were 39.2k patients in hopsital.
The seven day average of deaths now is 124.  At the peak of the first wave, April 10th, the seven day average of deaths was 942.  At the peak of the second wave, January 20th, the seven day average of deaths was 1248. 
It's a completely different scenario - it's awful for the people who are ill and their families and it's very difficult for the people looking after them but it's a fundamentally different situation.

I think the issue now is that the NHS are seeing way higher admissions for other non Covid reasons due to these people becoming acute as they have not been able to get treatment due to the previous pressures. Covid admissions are not the problem any more, it's all the other conditions that have become serious enough to need hospital admission due to them being pushed down the previous pecking order.

In England Covid cases make up just 5.5% of hospital admissions.

Hospital capacity is still below90%.

The problem is the lack of overall hospital capacity which has been the case for years.

’Just in time’ increases efficiency under normal times but when we’re trying to clear a massive backlog it’s no good.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Anyone looking at this graphic to try to decide where the best place to introduce restrictions to reduce case numbers and coming up with any answer other than "schools" has gone into the question with a predetermined answer.

The question isn't "where should we put restrictions" but rather "is it really necessary to bring case numbers down amongst this demographic?"

This, we need to be asking this question in general and not obessing over case numbers, a good percentage of which will be nothing worse than a bit of unpleasantnes

[scottsdad]

14 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

The knock on harms in terms of closing schools are pretty huge - particularly for vulnerable children. 
 

I think we have all agreed that nothing should be shut, otherwise when will it ever stop. 
 

The NHS need to stop fucking moaning and get on with their job, complain about increasing resource levels but stop asking the public to stop living their lives to make yours easier. 

I was about to post the same thing regarding schools. 

Lockdowns and school closures are very unhealthy for children. That point needs made again and again. Shutting schools might slow the spread of the virus that is largely harmless to this group, but would cause immense harm.

[scottsdad]

Simple, low key....

[Aladdin]

11 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

The NHS need to stop fucking moaning and get on with their job, complain about increasing resource levels but stop asking the public to stop living their lives to make yours easier. 

Whilst I agree schools should not be shut, given the pressures clinical staff have been working under, for years, but in particular, since the pandemic began, I think they are entirely entitled to moan.

I'm aware there's a few members of P&B who have clinical roles and I don't think any of them could be accused of not getting on with the job in extremely difficult circumstances.  The fact is, the NHS has been run with no slack for years and it only takes a small adverse event to push it over the edge.

It may take a combination of increasing efficiency, increasing funding and better organisation but the public can play a role by using some fucking common sense in reducing no-show appointments and not turning up at A&E for an ailment that could be sorted by the chemist.

[dirty dingus]

There is a covid update today for the first time in donkeys.  I'm going for Bozo, Sir Patrick and Steve Bruce fielding the questions.

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, Abdul_Latif said:

Absolutely spot on.

This is the governments problem to fix, not mine or yours.

I'd agree with that up to a point, but you can't separate health outcomes and the demands on the health services from at least some aspects of personal responsibility, be it about the spread of Covid or anything else.  There's no point in girning about things like obesity, lung cancer and diabetes while being 24 stone, puffing on a Woodbine and eating a lunch comprising 2 steak bakes, a sausage roll and two cans of lager.  

The primary responsibility for an individual's health - for most people in most circumstances - rests with that individual. (I realise that this will not be a popular viewpoint. It is so much easier to blame others.).

I used to work in an office where one woman was always banging on about how hard it was for her to lose weight.  Every day she had at least one hot roll from the canteen. On one particular day about 11.00 am she was complaining again, while downing a can of Irn Bru and a bag of McCoys crinkle cut crisps and another woman cracked.  She asked the other if she ever considered the fact that she was stuffing her face with garbage all day might have something to do with it.  

Needless to say, the only significant outcome was that the overweight one complained that the other woman had harassed her.  

These are not popular messages for folk to hear, but to me it's weird to hear folk complain about a "nanny state" in one breath, then blame governments when hospitals and health services are unnecessarily burdened by patients with conditions that to some extent are avoidable if individuals follow health advice. 

Sorry if that came across as a rant, but I have a close relative with serious, long term, unavoidable (as far as the "experts" are concerned) health issues.  If he couldn't find a hospital bed because others occupying them were anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers or other wilfully ignorant selfish w@nkers, you bet that my first point of complaint would  not necessarily be the Government/s. 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Salt n Vinegar

[PedroMoutinho]

10 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Simple, low key....

Yep, not like social distancing would make whole sectors totally unviable or anything. 

This is totally ridiculous- it’s not the responsibility of the public to ‘protect’ the NHS by massively restricting their lives. 

Particularly not now that everyone who wants to be is long vaccinated.

[Michael W]

23 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I was about to post the same thing regarding schools. 

Lockdowns and school closures are very unhealthy for children. That point needs made again and again. Shutting schools might slow the spread of the virus that is largely harmless to this group, but would cause immense harm.

I don't disagree with that (and indeed agree it's something we should avoid if possible), but ultimately if we are at the position where cases are high and the demand is that we bring them down, that would be the most effective way to do it. Restrictions on the rest of society tend to end up with us gradually entering lockdown. 

It's also all fine and well for #FBPE veteran '@doctor_oxford' to also demand social distancing is brought back, whilst disregarding the impact this has on people working in hospitality and leisure settings. That means inevitable capacity reduction and probably workers that need to be let go, or furlough is brought back as well again. 

It feels like there's been a concerted effort the last couple of days in this area to butter us up for restrictions again. 

 

[ICTChris]

17 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

There is a covid update today for the first time in donkeys.  I'm going for Bozo, Sir Patrick and Steve Bruce fielding the questions.

Have the Scottish Government briefings stopped?

[Bairnardo]

It will be masks and passports for England IMO. Just need to hope SNP dont seen that as unacceptable parity and throw something else in just to be further up the caring curve.

[No_Problemo]

39 minutes ago, Aladdin said:

Whilst I agree schools should not be shut, given the pressures clinical staff have been working under, for years, but in particular, since the pandemic began, I think they are entirely entitled to moan.

I'm aware there's a few members of P&B who have clinical roles and I don't think any of them could be accused of not getting on with the job in extremely difficult circumstances.  The fact is, the NHS has been run with no slack for years and it only takes a small adverse event to push it over the edge.

It may take a combination of increasing efficiency, increasing funding and better organisation but the public can play a role by using some fucking common sense in reducing no-show appointments and not turning up at A&E for an ailment that could be sorted by the chemist.

Yes, moan about the shambolic lack of resources - but not continually asking the public not to leave the house.