Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Elixir]

43 minutes ago, Detournement said:

NHS market reforms introduced by New Labour were designed to lead to the privatisation of all profitable parts of the NHS.

New Labour sounds like New Normal. Conspiracy confirmed!

 

41 minutes ago, Detournement said:

If you have seen anything where the Scottish Government suggest the passport will be temporary please share.

How do you propose it stays in use or morphs into something else as we move out of this winter, it becomes abundantly clear the crisis is over, the WHO declare the pandemic phase over, and emergency powers expire? You'll have to think up some new utter junk about how it's just the start of a Chinese-style social credit system or some other insane ramblings.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I thinking you’re getting the wrong end of the stick here.
I, for one, am just trying to get the facts and, it would appear that a substantial number of GP’s are choosing to work part time, as is their right. I can see it at my practice.
We therefore need to train up lots more.

Weird. I thought it was because you're a trolling arsehole.

My bad.

[Left Back]

45 minutes ago, Elixir said:

New Labour sounds like New Normal. Conspiracy confirmed!

 

How do you propose it stays in use or morphs into something else as we move out of this winter, it becomes abundantly clear the crisis is over, the WHO declare the pandemic phase over, and emergency powers expire? You'll have to think up some new utter junk about how it's just the start of a Chinese-style social credit system or some other insane ramblings.

Why do you continue to bite on his moonhowling pish?

[The Master]

9 hours ago, Tynierose said:

 

I do not know of anyone who works 5 days, I did it for a year and it was quite frankly soul destroying.  Like many others I compress my working week into 4 days of stress, abuse and angst instead to allow me a day to reboot.

Surely anyone who works a 5 day week already has 2 days to “reboot”?

[Elixir]

1 hour ago, Left Back said:

Why do you continue to bite on his moonhowling pish?

It's highly amusing.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Stunned that none of the batshit mental, SNP hating zealots on here haven't re-tweeted the Tories embarrassing lie about vaccine passports being responsible for delays at Hampden on Saturday. 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[williemillersmoustache]

The red tories shrieking utter shite about the Nike Conference for the umpteenth time are suspiciously quiet this morning about the commons report which eviscerates those murdering clowns down south for "the UK's worst public health failure."

Funny. That.

 

[craigkillie]

Stunned that none of the batshit mental, SNP hating zealots on here haven't re-tweeted the Tories embarrassing lie about vaccine passports being responsible for delays at Hampden on Saturday. 
 

The Tories being a bunch of liars is not newsworthy.

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Stunned that none of the batshit mental, SNP hating zealots on here haven't re-tweeted the Tories embarrassing lie about vaccine passports being responsible for delays at Hampden on Saturday. 

 

Gincardine doesn't really post on this part on the forum. What other 'SNP hating zealots' did you have in mind champ?

[anotherchance]

39 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Stunned that none of the batshit mental, SNP hating zealots on here haven't re-tweeted the Tories embarrassing lie about vaccine passports being responsible for delays at Hampden on Saturday. 

 

Hopefully that’s not you suggesting the Tories lying about the reason for the  queues on Saturday is an argument in favour of vaccine passports, or negates any argument against.

[Left Back]

46 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

The red tories shrieking utter shite about the Nike Conference for the umpteenth time are suspiciously quiet this morning about the commons report which eviscerates those murdering clowns down south for "the UK's worst public health failure."

Funny. That.

 

Unfortunately that Commons report has no teeth.  Nothing it contains is a surprise to anyone and the real reason the public enquiry is being delayed is to put more distance between the memories of last year and the enquiry findings.

The only thing they have left to do is make sure the public enquiry pins all the blame on Hancock which Cummings has conveniently sown the seeds for.

ETA.  They'll make a show of enacting some recommendations from the report to make themselves look good at the enquiry which will then be a waste of time after Hancock is thrown to the wolves.  No-one else will be held accountable.  Nothing to see here, move along.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Left Back

[Michael W]

The scientists, whose advice the government acted upon, are equally culpable. Not really sure there's anything in there we don't already know, right enough. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089

Wonder when Vallance, Whitty and the rest of SAGE end up being hauled in front of the Inquiry to explain the below? Unless they think the finding is untrue, of course. 

Not really sure on what grounds the committee realistically expected MPs to challenge the advice given, since it's allegedly the best we had. Certainly more authoritative than whatever viewpoint Johnson or Raab had on it, that's for sure.

The only real piece of pushback I can really see is why the response was an international outlier - clearly Whitty, Vallance et all genuinely believed there was a reason that the UK would not be impacted in the same way as Italy. What was that reason for that? It's never been explained. 

The government was of course free to ignore the advice given, which would've gone down a treat I'm sure. "The Science" was badly wrong, at any rate. You can to an extent understand the initial problems due to the advice being poor, but after April 2020 the subsequent bungling is squarely on the government. The f**k up had happened based on flawed advice, but after that? There was enough information to inform decisions. 

When Covid hit, the government's approach was to manage its spread through the population rather than try to stop it - or herd immunity by infection as the report called it.

The report said this was based on dealing with a flu pandemic, and was done on the advice of its scientific advisers on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage).

But the idea was not challenged enough by ministers in any part of the UK, indicating a "degree of group-think".

[Dunning1874]

On 08/10/2021 at 10:33, Elixir said:

Canada are just as psycho on Covid matters as Australia, New Zealand, and Democrat states in their neighbour. It will be reviewed at least every six months so eventually these places will get a grip when it's obvious the crisis is long gone and the sane parts of the world force them into touch. It's often overlooked that such draconian measures have economic costs and constraints, which will inevitably come home to roost.

On this, I think there's a danger in applying the same logic to the actions of governments across all countries. Of course you can believe vaccine passports/mandates of any kind are all inherently wrong regardless of the situation in any particular country and that would be a logically consistent position to take, but just because something doesn't make sense as a Covid response in Scotland it doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't make sense elsewhere.

Introducing passports in Scotland to access areas which have already been open for months without requiring them at the point where between 85-90% of the over 16 population are already fully vaccinated is clearly performative nonsense to be seen to be doing something for the sake of it, which will make no difference. Doing it in the US where the comparable national rate is below 70% despite vaccines being available for longer, some states are still below 50%, anti-vaccine conspiracism is more prevalent than here, hospitals in some of those states are struggling in a way Scottish hospitals aren't and there is evidence from other states which have already introduced measures like mandates that they do encourage uptake, there's a clear argument that it does make sense as a measure to combat a pandemic which isn't under control for them as it is for much of Europe. You can still argue it's morally objectionable for various reasons, but it's not performative.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Unfortunately that Commons report has no teeth.  Nothing it contains is a surprise to anyone and the real reason the public enquiry is being delayed is to put more distance between the memories of last year and the enquiry findings.

The only thing they have left to do is make sure the public enquiry pins all the blame on Hancock which Cummings has conveniently sown the seeds for.

ETA.  They'll make a show of enacting some recommendations from the report to make themselves look good at the enquiry which will then be a waste of time after Hancock is thrown to the wolves.  No-one else will be held accountable.  Nothing to see here, move along.

I'm afraid that's been the recurring theme for the past few years now, we're living in a facebook / twitter driven political world where our populist Governments only react to what their analysts are telling them is getting the "hits".

Racism, Homophobia, Trans rights and Misogyny are the current causes / issues which are in focus, however "trivial" issues such as corruption, bribery and even Government endorsed murder are all pretty low on the list, hence certain people are literally getting away with murder.

Take a back hander of hundreds of thousands / millions from a Russian oligarch / US multinational for government contracts or provide your mates / family with multi million contracts with no competitive tenders and it's just shrugged off, but heaven forbid that someone takes offence at a tweet you "liked" 10 years previously or a costume you wore at a Halloween function at University etc.

Oh what a time to be a lying, corrupt and greedy politician.........

[williemillersmoustache]

14 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Unfortunately that Commons report has no teeth.  Nothing it contains is a surprise to anyone and the real reason the public enquiry is being delayed is to put more distance between the memories of last year and the enquiry findings.

The only thing they have left to do is make sure the public enquiry pins all the blame on Hancock which Cummings has conveniently sown the seeds for.

ETA.  They'll make a show of enacting some recommendations from the report to make themselves look good at the enquiry which will then be a waste of time after Hancock is thrown to the wolves.  No-one else will be held accountable.  Nothing to see here, move along.

Ah yes the tried and tested UK Public enquiry format of waiting until everyone involved is dead or doolally.

20 minutes ago, Michael W said:

The scientists, whose advice the government acted upon, are equally culpable. Not really sure there's anything in there we don't already know, right enough. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58876089

Wonder when Vallance, Whitty and the rest of SAGE end up being hauled in front of the Inquiry to explain the below? Unless they think the finding is untrue, of course. 

Not really sure on what grounds the committee realistically expected MPs to challenge the advice given, since it's allegedly the best we had. Certainly more authoritative than whatever viewpoint Johnson or Raab had on it, that's for sure.

The only real piece of pushback I can really see is why the response was an international outlier - clearly Whitty, Vallance et all genuinely believed there was a reason that the UK would not be impacted in the same way as Italy. What was that reason for that? It's never been explained. 

The government was of course free to ignore the advice given, which would've gone down a treat I'm sure. "The Science" was badly wrong, at any rate. You can to an extent understand the initial problems due to the advice being poor, but after April 2020 the subsequent bungling is squarely on the government. The f**k up had happened based on flawed advice, but after that? There was enough information to inform decisions. 

When Covid hit, the government's approach was to manage its spread through the population rather than try to stop it - or herd immunity by infection as the report called it.

The report said this was based on dealing with a flu pandemic, and was done on the advice of its scientific advisers on the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage).

But the idea was not challenged enough by ministers in any part of the UK, indicating a "degree of group-think".

There was also far too much emphasis on info from the behavioural "nudge unit" types that had one representative on SAGE but is a separate government advisory group and is essentially a part of the cabinet office. The "lockdown fatigue" stuff was absolute poison. Killed thousands.

[Michael W]

40 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

There was also far too much emphasis on info from the behavioural "nudge unit" types that had one representative on SAGE but is a separate government advisory group and is essentially a part of the cabinet office. The "lockdown fatigue" stuff was absolute poison. Killed thousands.

Completely agree. 

I must admit I was quite surprised at how widely adhered to the measures were, even when they'd been in place for ages.

For all talk in some quarters of 'scum' breaking the rules, it just didn't happen in anything approaching high numbers. You got the occasional high profile instances, such as the bloke who went to the Isle of Man on a jet ski, but the vast majority abided. Certainly more than the nudgers thought and modelled. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, anotherchance said:

Hopefully that’s not you suggesting the Tories lying about the reason for the  queues on Saturday is an argument in favour of vaccine passports, or negates any argument against.

Not at all, and I've never suggested anything like that.  It's just that it's the kind of confirmation bias tweet that the fruitloops love and post on here day in, day out. 

I was surprised that the normal zealots haven't been all over it, that's all. 

 

[Detournement]

 

Just a conspiracy theory....

[welshbairn]

I remember Johnson saying something like "While some countries are closing their doors, Great Britain will be staying open for business!". Not sure if that was before or after the horrific pictures started coming in from Northern Italy.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I remember Johnson saying something like "While some countries are closing their doors, Great Britain will be staying open for business!". Not sure if that was before or after the horrific pictures started coming in from Northern Italy.

Our media also has to take much of the blame as from day one they were mischief making with some tabloids more or less insinuating that it was a hoax and that we shouldn't stand for lockdowns etc.

It's only when you visit other countries that you appreciate that it's our lot that are completely out of touch and in fact the majority of the world has had much stronger restrictions in place than ourselves and the populations were largely in favour of this. maybe that's why we're the outlier now as regards infection rates and covid related deaths ??

I suppose much of it is personal experience, in as much as those who have lost loved ones or had a bad bout themselves realise how serious the threat is and then you have those like myself who've never had it, don't really know anyone that's had it bad, and as such thinks it's a lot of over the top fuss about something we're going to have to learn to live with.

Having said that, I really don't think there's a right answer here as one could argue that had we taken a much harder stance then we'd probably have saved lots of lives and kept infections low, on the other hand it could be argued that the lockdowns themselves did untold damage and anything longer / more restrictive could have resulted in many more deaths through serious depression culminating in suicides.

As always it's a balance and common sense which is called for, covid is most certainly very dangerous and still a threat, however there's no doubt that the vaccines have done a magnificent job and currently the majority of the deaths / serious illness appear to be in those who are unvaccinated for whatever reason, as such, is it really such a bad thing that Governments are doing everything they can, short of forcing people, in trying to encourage people to get vaccinated ??

Given the evidence to date, I personally don't think it is and in the real grown up world it's really nothing to do with civil liberties being snatched away etc, that's just nonsense which ironically comes from lots of folk who're never off social media telling us all about their life.

Honestly, you couldn't make it up !!