Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Michael W]

Objecting to PCR tests for returning travellers is Trumpian. 

 

[Have some faith in Magic]

I am sure these people are well qualified but I would like a simple explanation for my simple brain from these highly qualified people with massive brains as to why Scotland is an outlier in Europe? 

Is the entirety of mainland Europe reckless? Are their big brained experts not as clever as ours. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just now, Have some faith in Magic said:

I am sure these people are well qualified but I would like a simple explanation for my simple brain from these highly qualified people with massive brains as to why Scotland is an outlier in Europe? 

Is the entirety of mainland Europe reckless? Are their big brained experts not as clever as ours. 

They quite clearly only have princeton educated advisors. 

[ddfg]

3 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I realise this thread contains strong opinions but are we really still at the stage of putting the opinions of hairdresser's and gym owners on the same page as people with qualifications? 

I see the answer is sadly yes. 

 

Does Linda Bauld or any of her friends in academia pay the rent of these small businesses?

We have been fed a narrative of fear and worry for 18 months and we are still amongst the basket cases of the Europe. Dread to think where we'd be if hadn't been for all the control freakery and care. 

We recently returned from a week in Greece and paid almost £200 for the privilege of entering Scotland which at that time had a case rate that was 5 times higher. I don't know who were supposed to be protecting but it was certainly safer in Crete than North Lanarkshire. 

[Bairnardo]

There are two things the SNP fanboys dont do.

Offer up their own credible and logical alternatives when criticising Tory policy.

Offer up justification and reasoning for their endorsement of SNP policy.

Pretty much since the vaccines changed the face of the pandemic, the above two points have been an absolute hallmark of certain folk on this thread and on social media.

[Detournement]

10 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

I am sure these people are well qualified but I would like a simple explanation for my simple brain from these highly qualified people with massive brains as to why Scotland is an outlier in Europe? 

Is the entirety of mainland Europe reckless? Are their big brained experts not as clever as ours. 

Scottish people love bevvying and partying. 

We are all superspreaders. 

[williemillersmoustache]

25 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Those guys in the pics look very much like yer average snp march participants with different flegs.

So tell me then, for Jason Leitch and his fancy Harvard degrees, why has he been so wrong on almost everything? Why did Scotland go full blown safety theatre and end up with the highest case rate in the entire world? Plenty equally qualified folks informing other governments to the contrary and getting better results all around the world. People like you should go and speak to families failed by policies informed by Linda Bauld and Jason Leitch et al and just explain to them, sorry your family member died, but its ok because he’s got a degree from Harvard. 
 

You’re clearly trolling. Fucking dont dare have an opinion to the contrary because some c**t’s been to Harvard.

How much of the snp coolaid have you been drinking

This is the Working-class Playwright sketch. 

"With your fancy Harvard degrees!"

jfc.

 

[Dawson Park Boy]

6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

There are two things the SNP fanboys dont do.

Offer up their own credible and logical alternatives when criticising Tory policy.

Offer up justification and reasoning for their endorsement of SNP policy.

Pretty much since the vaccines changed the face of the pandemic, the above two points have been an absolute hallmark of certain folk on this thread and on social media.

In addition to what you’ve just said, the Scottish media is just so compliant.

Boris and his mates would never get away with what NS and her coterie  get away with up here.

Very worrying.

[The_Kincardine]

8 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

In addition to what you’ve just said, the Scottish media is just so compliant.

Boris and his mates would never get away with what NS and her coterie  get away with up here.

Very worrying.

TBF I don't see the media down here as significantly better - maybe just a bit more critical.  The real opposition to Boris (and I've fairly certain he himself would have backed vaccine passports) comes from Tory MPs who, curiously enough, seem to be more in tune with Scottish hairdressers, hospitality owners and airport operators than the SG is.

[vikingTON]

58 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Aye, but she's just about as qualified to speak on the economy as that dick who runs the garage, for example and you can't compare independent academic expertise with individual business owners.

It's not independent academic expertise though, because almost all academics are in fact experts only in a very narrowly defined field. Jason Leitch is no more qualified to talk about the spread of an airborne virus as an expert than Sir Tom Devine (second best academic of modern Scottish history) is to talk about the events of the Chinese Cultural Revolution. A fact that Leitch's roll call of spectacularly wrong calls in the spring of 2020 demonstrated. 

The best that you can realistically expect is that academics will be capable of effectively processing evidence and best practice from other fields, but not all of them are actually capable of doing so.

And they are not uniquely qualified to do that job. The onus is on them to set out the case with evidence in the public domain; not least when their policy massively diverges from the EU with a much larger cohort of galaxy-brained public health academics. 

[williemillersmoustache]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

But you're not quoting me at all as I have never said anything like that.

Leaving that aside, putting people on an untouchable pedestal because they've been to Harvard is extremely dangerous.

I get that you personally don't feel qualified to challenge them but don't assume that we are all as weak and lacking in our allround education and experience as you are.

Thank you for protecting freedom. 

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Aye, but she's just about as qualified to speak on the economy as that dick who runs the garage, for example and you can't compare independent academic expertise with individual business owners.

You ever going to answer the question I've asked you three times already?

My guess is 'no' as there's no way to answer it without exposing your opinion of 'only people not wanting this are laymen' as a load of utter made up shite.

Edited September 18, 2021 by djchapsticks

[djchapsticks]

15 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

And they are not uniquely qualified to do that job. The onus is on them to set out the case with evidence in the public domain; not least when their policy massively diverges from the EU with a much larger cohort of galaxy-brained public health academics. 

A point that he's already conveniently ignored multiple times today when he went on his ridiculous 'hairdressers and gym-owners' rant.

[superbigal]

Daily Summary for @oaksoft :   Deaths 27 (30 day before),  ICU cases 99 up from 87  (? new admissions),  In hospital with confirmed Covid  1052 up from 1037 (155 new admissions).  

Daily Cases Update: 8 days of falls now with today an excellent 5.46% to 565.3 and positivity nearing 10%. More falls due tomorrow. We are already down over 30% since the peak 8 days ago.  

Everywhere bar Stirling falling.  Down to 3rd in the world and Serbia and Northern Ireland now in touching distance in Europe.

Scotland's most dangerous neighbourhood is an odd one. Blackburn in Aberdeenshire at 1600 per 100K

Vaccine programme seems to have ground to a halt. Apparently the passport threat may have made uptake worse in under 40s.

Figures for Jags.  1st Vaccines   1,423 to 1,578 ,  2nd vaccines   3,041 to 3,245

Total Cases Scotland 7 days 9th September to 15th September  were  32,684 to 30,900 down 5.46%, Positivity was 10.7% now 10.2%.  Cases per 100K were  598.0 now 565.3

Home Nations Daily Cases per 100K update  :  UK Average  347.9 to 337.0 down 3.13%, England  297.2 to 287.9 down 3.13%, Wales 502.2 to 495.2 down 1.39%, Northern Ireland   567.7 to 547.1 down 3.63%

In Europe for travellers (Countries Population over 3 Million) Serbia 543.3 (weekly change up 43%), Croatia 189.2 (weekly change up 39%), Ireland  176.6 (Weekly change -11%),  Switzerland 172.1 (weekly change -22%),  Austria 160.4 (weekly change up 16%), Bosnia 160.3 (Weekly change up 16%), Bulgaria 157.6 (weekly change up 17%) These are the only countries over 156 cases per 100K   

Scotland  peaks in wave 4 at 817.1 for 1st Sep to 7th Sep, (UK was 392.1),. Cases that day were 44,663 and positivity 12.5%

Scotland peaks in Wave 3 at 425.1 for 27th June to 3rd July, (UK was 229.9) . Cases that day were 23,222 and positivity 10.8%

Scotland  peaked in wave 2 at 301.9 for figures 29th Dec to 4th Jan, (UK was 642.1)    Cases that day were 16,496 and test positivity rate was 11.9%  

Council progress in last 24 Hours as follows.

Click cases by neighbourhood to see the spread on the geographical map. 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview

West Dunbartonshire  939.6 to 870.5  Down over 7%

East Renfrewshire  835.9 to 769.3 Down near 8%

Inverclyde 842.2 to 748.8 Down over 11%

North Lanarkshire   782.1 to 737.2 

Renfrewshire  795.5 to 732.5  Down near 8%

North Ayrshire   738.9 to 703.9 

West Lothian  696.9 to 687.1

South Ayrshire   701.8 to 684.0  

Midlothian   701.0 to 660.2

East Ayrshire   688.3 to 650.5

East Dunbartonshire  659.3 to 644.6  

Fife    663.9 to 637.5

Dundee City   668.6 to 632.3

South Lanarkshire   644.6 to 606.6   

Stirling    572.4 to 600.6  Only Riser so far

Glasgow City  659.0 to 599.1  Weeg down over 22% in 3 days.

BELOW AVERAGE

Falkirk  572.4 to 555.6 

Aberdeenshire   553.0 to 539.5

Clackmannanshire  549.8 to 485.5 

City Of Edinburgh  504.9 to 472.7 

Argyll & Bute   511.5 to 470.6 

Aberdeen City   468.9 to 459.3

East Lothian   435.6 to 416.1

Angus  411.0 to 397.2

Scottish  Borders    411.3 to 396.6

Dumfries & Galloway   395.8 to 394.5

Perth & Kinross   391.7 to 383.8   

Highlands   388.7 to 358.5

Moray     229.9 to 232.0

Shetland Islands   214.3 to 174.9

Orkney Islands    156.3 to 147.3

Western Isles    124.5 to 128.3

Edited September 18, 2021 by superbigal

[Frankie S]

4 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I realise this thread contains strong opinions but are we really still at the stage of putting the opinions of hairdresser's and gym owners on the same page as people with qualifications? 

I see the answer is sadly yes. 

 

Scot Gov’s absolute contempt for Scottish businesses has been evident throughout the pandemic. At every turn Scot Gov has made Scottish businesses bear the economic cost of their dogmatic fixation with enforcing significantly tighter (yet often completely arbitrary, contradictory and ineffective) restrictions (often unsubstantiated by anything resembling actual science, and too frequently unresponsive to the data cited as their justification) than the ‘reckless Tories’, just to ensure that no- one could possibly doubt that Nicola and the SNP ‘care more’ than Boris and Westminster. Scotland might have the highest Covid infection rates in the U.K., suggesting that our tougher restrictions have been largely ineffective, and the extra damage to our economy largely self-inflicted, but at least we’re the most conspicuously virtue-signalling Covid cesspit of Europe.

Now that furlough is ending, and our southern counterparts have seemingly accepted that Covid is transitioning from pandemic to endemic status, Scot Gov’s continuing fixation with differentiating ourselves from England by rolling on needlessly tighter restrictions (e.g. Covid passports, which will punitively burden the already beleaguered nightclub, live music and events sectors, still struggling to recover after almost 18 months of closure; and now the Scottish travel sector, which has been at breaking point for ages, with barely a hint of the relaxation of restrictions that other sectors have enjoyed, seems set to be burdened with the continuance of onerous testing requirements for the fully vaccinated that are about to be jettisoned down south) is seemingly no longer the government’s financial responsibility.

It won’t be the Scottish government that picks up the tab for the ongoing restrictions on business - it will be Scottish businesses, as our direct equivalents down south prosper by comparison. Not that Scot Gov ever really did pick up the tab for their draconian restrictions: three of my businesses - a nightclub, an events production company and a concert promotions company - remained closed throughout the bulk of the last 18 months due to government restrictions, but the last two picked up a paltry 20k each in total in government grants (excluding furlough), despite seeing their entire turnover decimated and substantial six figure annual contributions to the Exchequer wiped out.

Even at the height of the pandemic and the restrictions, Scot Gov only subsidised a fraction of business losses and a selective number of businesses, often through competitive and hugely oversubscribed funds, allocating limited amounts of cash (often on ‘merit’ - which tended to mean the same snouts monopolising the same troughs, allocated by the same funding bodies, or prioritising support to firms that were most in danger of becoming insolvent, which might on the face of it seem reasonable, but is an essentially speculative method of supporting the economy - gambling on the businesses that are most likely to fail, while denying funding to prudently run businesses that were deemed able to carry the traumatic cost of the government’s restrictions entirely from their own painstakingly accumulated reserves).

Scot Gov has since day one of the pandemic been fixated with levelling down - penalising and demoralising successful businesses and entrepreneurs; artificially propping up barely solvent and fly by night businesses and rewarding the usual suspects (with all the potential for fraud and rigging the system that entails). Scot has never, at any stage, shown the remotest interest in fairly and transparently distributing on an equitable basis the funds it has been allocated from Westminster for Covid business support (let alone dip into the Barnett Formula allocation / Independence campaign treasure trove). Hospitality businesses will never forget how strategic framework funding (the raison d’etre of which was to compensate businesses that were closed or otherwise adversely affected by government restrictions) was withdrawn well before punitive restrictions on businesses were lifted. Indeed strategic framework support was withdrawn from nightclubs long before they were even allowed to reopen, an utterly scandalous policy that has been compounded by the mandating of Covid passports for the sector.

And now that furlough is ending, with all other funding channels long closed off, Scottish businesses are expected to pick up the tab for enforcing onerous vaccine passport entrance requirements when Scot Gov, in typically incompetent style, has barely introduced a functioning QR code system for the fully vaccinated, let alone an effective app. Business owners are tearing what’s left of their hair out in frustration. As usual there is absolutely no clarity to in terms of how this system will operate, or how we’re expected to enforce it. Scot Gov seems to think that business owners will suddenly get on board with enforcing a regulatory regime (that even the government don’t understand) which, if properly enforced, will drastically reduce their footfall and profit margins, all without any financial support or compensation whatsoever. Cloud fucking Cuckoo Land..

I’ve been active in the business community for over 30 years, and have extensive contacts and colleagues in many sectors of Scotland’s traumatised economy (including hairdressing, which you so blithely dismiss - my wife is a salon director, in a company that is about to lose a second outlet due to the financial effects of Covid). And it’s not just hairdressers, gym owners and nail salon operators that I know - we have a good friend in the travel industry who has been trying to keep her business afloat during uniquely challenging times, with little or no assistance from the Scottish government, and has recently had to give up the lease on her Edinburgh shop. I know many people throughout the hospitality, live music, events, arts and culture sectors (some of them are even quite bright - though clearly not Jason Leitch and Linda Bauld level intellects obviously) and the general feeling is that the Scottish government has failed them. These sectors have been scapegoated, penalised, punished, marginalised, under-funded and undermined by a Scottish government that is now viewed as not just laughably incompetent, not just ‘not business-friendly’, but as a clear and present danger to Scottish business.

Alienating and undermining huge sectors of the Scottish business community seems to me to be a huge gamble on the part of the Scottish government. The Scottish economy is on life support, and the businesses and people that drive it and generate tax revenues are demoralised and angry. Given that Scotland’s economy is already hamstrung by a higher level of welfare dependency than most comparable European countries, I’d have thought stimulating and energising our moribund economy would be at the forefront of the Scottish government’s priorities as we emerge from the pandemic, but apparently not.

It’ll be fascinating to see how the the SNP can cobble together a convincing economic case for independence from the remnants of our shattered economy…

Edited September 18, 2021 by Frankie S

[djchapsticks]

4 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

Scot Gov’s absolute contempt for Scottish businesses has been evident throughout the pandemic. At every turn Scot Gov has made Scottish businesses bear the economic cost of their dogmatic fixation with enforcing significantly tighter (yet often completely arbitrary, contradictory and ineffective) restrictions (often unsubstantiated by anything resembling actual science, and too frequently unresponsive to the data cited as their justification) than the ‘reckless Tories’, just to ensure that no- one could possibly doubt that Nicola and the SNP ‘care more’ than Boris and Westminster. Scotland might have the highest Covid infection rates in the U.K., suggesting that our tougher restrictions have been largely ineffective, and the extra damage to our economy largely self-inflicted, but at least we’re the most conspicuously virtue-signalling Covid cesspit of Europe.

Now that furlough is ending, and our southern counterparts have seemingly accepted that Covid is transitioning from pandemic to endemic status, Scot Gov’s continuing fixation with differentiating ourselves from England by rolling on needlessly tighter restrictions (e.g. Covid passports, which will punitively burden the already beleaguered nightclub, live music and events sectors, still struggling to recover after almost 18 months of closure; and now the Scottish travel sector, which has been at breaking point for ages, with barely a hint of the relaxation of restrictions that other sectors have enjoyed, seems set to be burdened with the continuance of onerous testing requirements for the fully vaccinated that are about to be jettisoned down south) is seemingly no longer the government’s financial responsibility.

It won’t be the Scottish government that picks up the tab for the ongoing restrictions on business - it will be Scottish businesses, as our direct equivalents down south prosper by comparison. Not that Scot Gov ever really did pick up the tab for their draconian restrictions: three of my businesses - a nightclub, an events production company and a concert promotions company) remained closed throughout the bulk of the last 18 months due to government restrictions, but the last two picked up a paltry 20k each in total in government grants (excluding furlough), despite seeing their entire turnover decimated and substantial six figure annual contributions to the Exchequer wiped out.

Even at the height of the pandemic and the restrictions, Scot Gov only subsidised a fraction of business losses, and often through competitive and hugely oversubscribed funds, allocating limited amounts of cash (often on ‘merit’ - which tended to mean the same snouts monopolising the same troughs, allocated by the same funding bodies, or prioritising support to firms that were most in danger of becoming insolvent, which might on the face of it seem reasonable, but is an essentially speculative method of supporting the economy - gambling on the businesses that are most likely to fail, while denying funding to prudently businesses that were deemed able to carry the traumatic cost of the government’s restrictions entirely from their own painstakingly accumulated reserves).

Scot Gov has since day one of the pandemic been fixated with levelling down and rigging the game - penalising and demoralising successful businesses and entrepreneurs; artificially propping up barely solvent and fly by night businesses and rewarding the usual suspects (with all the potential for fraud and rigging the system that entails). Scot has never, at any stage, shown the remotest interest in fairly and transparently distributing on an equitable basis the funds it has been allocated from Westminster for Covid business support (let alone dip into the Barnett Formula allocation / Independence campaign treasure trove). Hospitality businesses will never forget how strategic framework funding (the raison d’etre of which was to compensate businesses that were closed or otherwise adversely affected by government restrictions) was withdrawn well before punitive restrictions on businesses were lifted. Indeed strategic framework support was withdrawn from nightclubs long before they were even allowed to reopen, an utterly scandalous policy that has been compounded by the mandating of Covid passports for the sector.

And now that furlough is ending, with all other funding channels long closed off, Scottish businesses are expected to pick up the tab for enforcing onerous vaccine passport entrance requirements when Scot Gov, in typically incompetent style, has barely introduced a functioning QR code system for the fully vaccinated, let alone an effective app. Business owners are tearing what’s left of their hair out in frustration. As usual there is absolutely no clarity to in terms of how this system will operate, or how we’re expected to enforce it. Scot Gov seems to think that business owners will suddenly get on board with enforcing a regulatory regime (that even the government don’t understand) which, if properly enforced, will drastically reduce their footfall and profit margins, all without any financial support or compensation whatsoever. Cloud fucking Cuckoo Land..

I’ve been active in the business community for over 30 years, and have extensive contacts and colleagues in many sectors of Scotland’s traumatised economy (including hairdressing, which you so blithely dismiss - my wife is a salon director, in a company that is about to lose a second outlet due to the financial effects of Covid). And it’s not just hairdressers, gym owners and nail salon operators that I know - we have a good friend in the travel industry who has been trying to keep her business afloat during uniquely challenging times, with little or no assistance from the Scottish government, and has recently had to give up the lease on her Edinburgh shop. I know many people throughout the hospitality, live music, events, arts and culture sectors (some of them are even quite bright - though clearly not Jason Leitch and Linda Bauld level intellects obviously) and the general feeling is that the Scottish government has failed them. These sectors have been scapegoated, penalised, punished, marginalised, under-funded and undermined by a Scottish government that is now viewed as not just laughably incompetent, not just ‘not business-friendly’, but as a clear and present danger to Scottish business.

Alienating and undermining huge sectors of the Scottish business community seems to me to be a huge gamble on the part of the Scottish government. The Scottish economy is on life support, and the businesses and people that drive it and generate tax revenues are demoralised and angry. Given that Scotland’s economy is already hamstrung by a higher level of welfare dependency than most comparable European countries, I’d have thought stimulating and energising our moribund economy would be at the forefront of the Scottish government’s priorities as we emerge from the pandemic, but apparently not.

It’ll be fascinating to see how the the SNP can cobble together a convincing economic case for independence from the remnants of our shattered economy…

Excellent post. 

Unfortunately it is directed at someone who is so focussed on 'caring more' he's also displaying he does not actually give a f**k about people who have had their livelihoods decimated by the last 18 months and have had precious little help to prevent it happening.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Stellaboz said:

I'm not so sure about how strong the SNP would be post indy. They're a means to an end for a lot of people I know. 

They’re a means to an end for me.  Once Scotland has gained its Independence then we will have the opportunity to vote for whatever ‘flavour’ of government we want.

I think a post-Independence SG will be left of centre and inclusive.

[Abdul_Latif]

17 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

 

I think a post-Independence SG will be left of centre and inclusive.

Isn’t that exactly what the SNP claim to be?

[Granny Danger]

32 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

Isn’t that exactly what the SNP claim to be?

Probably.  Doesn’t detract from my point.

 

[sparky88]

3 hours ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

 

Independence supporters always come out with ‘once we’re independent you can vote for anyone so the SNP could get voted out’ but the reality is that their supporters are large enough in numbers that they would undoubtedly be in charge, which is actually turning me away from it altogether.

Shite state of affairs.

There's no chance that post independence Mhairi Black and John Mason would be in the same party. It will disintegrate.

It's very difficult to get your head round but the SNP will split up soon after a yes vote. Parts of it will even form the basis of a centre right party too.