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3 minutes ago, RiG said:

Proposals for the vaccine certification programme have been published:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-mandatory-vaccine-certification/

ETA: Scheme to go live from 1 October with the app ready by 30 September. Venues will be legally obligated to restrict entry only to those double vaxed. Exemptions apply to under 18s, vaccine trial participants, medically exempt people and employees at the venues.

How can the main aim of the scheme be to reduce transmission while at the same they are not planning to allow proof of a negative test to allow entry?

I’d wager that someone who has had a negative LFT test is a lot less likely to transmit the virus than someone who is vaccinated.

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Guest Bob Mahelp
37 minutes ago, mizfit said:

I think the only thing the vaccine passport effects me with is football grounds but even then, Mcdiarmid isn’t going to exceed 10,000 so I doubt I’ll have much issue with it.

I don’t agree with it myself but it’s evidently coming in.

Yeap. 

As a general principle I don't agree with it, but there are 2 undisputable facts.....the first being that vaccination protects everyone and allows us all to live our lives, and the second being that if we don't have this measure then the government(s) may well re-introduce more draconian restrictions. 

If a vaccine passport acts as a catalyst to make lazy, selfish fuckers get the vaccine, then I'm fine with it. 

I make no comment on the logistics of administrating this. 

 

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I see Labour and Lib Dems are standing up for human rights and equity by demanding that… er, everyone needs a passport with a recent negative test before being allowed access to large events. This gross infringement of civil liberties just isn’t enough, apparently.

The Scottish Tories will vote against for ‘reasons’, leading to the very real possibility of Douglas Ross MSP voting against the idea in Scotland but Douglas Ross MP voting in favour for England. Perhaps Douglas Ross the linesman will be able to decide a final position for Douglas to stick to.

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2 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

How can the main aim of the scheme be to reduce transmission while at the same they are not planning to allow proof of a negative test to allow entry?

I’d wager that someone who has had a negative LFT test is a lot less likely to transmit the virus than someone who is vaccinated.

The negative test thing has already been shown as a complete waste of time though, plenty of folk on here saying they're going to events and registering a negative test that they've not even taken. If there's no actual checks happening with those and it's all based on trust then you're as well binning it. 

Passports can f**k off though.

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Guest Bob Mahelp
3 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

How can the main aim of the scheme be to reduce transmission while at the same they are not planning to allow proof of a negative test to allow entry?

I’d wager that someone who has had a negative LFT test is a lot less likely to transmit the virus than someone who is vaccinated.

The aim of the scheme is to 'reduce the rate and impact of transmission'. 

I think that the government has effectively given up on controlling case numbers. They haven't given up though on reducing the harm that increased case numbers can have on the severity of the disease on the un-vaccinated. 

The fact is that, if everyone in the country who CAN be vaccinated, actually IS vaccinated, then the impact of the disease will be negligible. 

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4 minutes ago, Paco said:

I see Labour and Lib Dems are standing up for human rights and equity by demanding that… er, everyone needs a passport with a recent negative test before being allowed access to large events. This gross infringement of civil liberties just isn’t enough, apparently.

The Scottish Tories will vote against for ‘reasons’, leading to the very real possibility of Douglas Ross MSP voting against the idea in Scotland but Douglas Ross MP voting in favour for England. Perhaps Douglas Ross the linesman will be able to decide a final position for Douglas to stick to.

Ross is like an incredibly shit version of Mick Foley.

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I always laugh at "sexual entertainment" venues in these documents.  I know it's childish but I like the idea of all these bureacrats sitting around trying to work out the safest way to reopen some sleazy lapdancing hovel.

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Proposals for the vaccine certification programme have been published:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-mandatory-vaccine-certification/

ETA: Scheme to go live from 1 October with the app ready by 30 September. Venues will be legally obligated to restrict entry only to those double vaxed. Exemptions apply to under 18s, vaccine trial participants, medically exempt people and employees at the venues.


No vaccine passport needed for the under 18s? Seems sensible, of course, given most can’t get the vaccine. And yet…

What is this scheme actually trying to achieve? A school-age child is seven times more likely to have Covid than a pensioner. IMG_1046.thumb.jpg.b23d17e8db8aac1d99a3976a806b422d.jpg
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9 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

 

I’d wager that someone who has had a negative LFT test is a lot less likely to transmit the virus than someone who is vaccinated.

Time for the twice-weekly reminder that the current LFTs beloved by the UK government are absolutely useless and fit only for the bin, as the US' FDA recommends. 

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I am going to a conference in London at the end of the month and only found out a few minutes ago that I need to proove double jagged (or negative test)  2 mins later I downloaded a certificate from NHS Scotland with QR codes that expire on this day in 2022 - very very easy.

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3 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

The aim of the scheme is to 'reduce the rate and impact of transmission'. 

I think that the government has effectively given up on controlling case numbers. They haven't given up though on reducing the harm that increased case numbers can have on the severity of the disease on the un-vaccinated. 

The fact is that, if everyone in the country who CAN be vaccinated, actually IS vaccinated, then the impact of the disease will be negligible. 

Except that given the unvaccinated group that they're so concerned about are young people going to live events and football games, the impact of transmission will be 'a glorified dose of the sniffles' in all but a handful of cases. The evidence for this was overwhelming before we even had vaccines, and so vaccine passports will have no effect on hospitalisations or deaths. 

If an unvaccinated 50 year old doesn't want the vaccine they are not going to be persuaded by any amount of nudge bullshit around live events, or even hospitality in months to come. They'll just go back to getting leathered in the house like they did for 16 months already. 

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11 minutes ago, Paco said:

I see Labour and Lib Dems are standing up for human rights and equity by demanding that… er, everyone needs a passport with a recent negative test before being allowed access. This gross infringement of civil liberties just isn’t enough, apparently.

The Scottish Tories will vote against for ‘reasons’, leading to the very real possibility of Douglas Ross MSP voting against the idea in Scotland but Douglas Ross MP voting in favour for England. Perhaps Douglas Ross the linesman will be able to decide a final position for Douglas to stick too.

Ross's excuses for voting against it up here. He could probably say exactly the same at Westminster, but won't.

Quote

Motion ref: S6M-01123.2

Asked by: Douglas Ross

As an amendment to motion S6M-01123 in the name of John Swinney (COVID Vaccine Certification Scheme), leave out from "recognises" to end and insert "notes that the Scottish Government has rushed out its proposals for COVID-19 vaccine certification without proper consultation or the infrastructure in place to deliver them; notes that the Deputy First Minister described the introduction of a certification scheme as the 'wrong way to go'; recognises that the affected businesses have not been able to prepare for the introduction of a certification scheme, and believes that, for these reasons, this COVID-19 vaccine certification scheme should not be introduced."

https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/whats-on-and-watch-live/whats-on#wm

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21 minutes ago, Caledonian1 said:

I am going to a conference in London at the end of the month and only found out a few minutes ago that I need to proove double jagged (or negative test)  2 mins later I downloaded a certificate from NHS Scotland with QR codes that expire on this day in 2022 - very very easy.

You've got to think that making it so easy to cheat the system is a built in feature.

Whenever they switch to a more secure version with biometric data as Blair has mentioned or just something like the codes for my gym which generate then expire in 20 secs it will be portrayed as a trivial change. 

No one will be unable to go any event they really want to go to this year which will diffuse protest then when the secure pass is introduced protesting it is much more difficult and disenfranchised people will be invisible. 

Edited by Detournement
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https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/184230/major-consequences-for-the-vaccinated-freeing-beds-for-covid-patients-angers-hospital/

 

Wonder if Health Boards would ever prioritise Vaccinated covid patients over non vaccinated ?

Maybe if overwhelmed ?

Edited by superbigal
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3 minutes ago, superbigal said:

https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/184230/major-consequences-for-the-vaccinated-freeing-beds-for-covid-patients-angers-hospital/

 

Wonder if Health Boards would ever prioritise Vaccinated covid patients over non vaccinated ?

Maybe if overwhelmed ?

I linked to a Washington Post opinion column the other day where a CIA doctor was arguing for exactly that to become the norm in the USA. 

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2 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Yes, i can see their point and see the anger against the "unvaccinated" growing by the day and of course being fuelled by the tabloid press etc.

People in general like to think that they're fair and accepting of others, however when something adversely affects them personally then they very quickly tend to change their tune.

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12 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

If we want to encourage young people to get vaccines we should pay them to get them.  £100 cash.

They're trying that in Alberta, well with C$. In a bit of a panic because they opened up before enough people were vaccinated and the hospitals are full.

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49 minutes ago, RiG said:

Proposals for the vaccine certification programme have been published:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-mandatory-vaccine-certification/

ETA: Scheme to go live from 1 October with the app ready by 30 September. Venues will be legally obligated to restrict entry only to those double vaxed. Exemptions apply to under 18s, vaccine trial participants, medically exempt people and employees at the venues.

EATA: This will affect football grounds as even though the thresholds only apply to, among other things, "live events: outdoors unseated 4,000+ in the audience" the SG have defined unseated to mean "events where some audience members are seated and some standing".

Publishing this hours before the vote is completely tinpot. The Scottish Parliament is a joke. 

If anyone thinks that Sturgeon is anyway different to Blair, Starmer, May, Macron, Merkel, Vardakar, Obama etc they need to wake up. 

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