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30 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Cases

3 people in Shetland

5 people in East Lothian

4 people Argyll & Bute

4 people in Dumfries and Galloway

5 people in Midlothian

7 people in South Ayrshire

31 people in Clackmannanshire

41 people in the Highlands

Sorry I had to look. :)

 

For a pandemic in a country of half vaccinated people that doesn't half look well under control.

Pubs and gyms yesterday please.

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4 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Definitely 2m or 1m+ with mitigation for the reopening in England where customers were not part of the same household or bubble.

I find it hard to believe any bar or restaurant owner in Scotland thought they would be reopening without SD for people outwith the same household / bubble. Local press and news has been full of articles showing businesses making their premises "covid secure" ahead of reopening. Yes many have been moaning about it but not seen any until that article today who were surprised they needed to.

Even assuming there is some notional assumption that different households will socially distance within groups, this was absolutely not being enforced in the summer anywhere, and would be almost unenforceable in any case. The hospitality sector is already on its knees with 1m+ social distancing between groups. Hospitality in England has always had a rule of maximum group size of 6 from multiple households (i.e. 6 people from up to 6 households). Social distancing everyone in a 6 person group made up from 6 different households simply isn’t feasible, as the vast majority of bars and restaurants simply don’t have the space, (they’d need giant tables in aircraft hanger-sized venues).

The strategy has always been that groups should be self-policing. Scotland had a group rule of 6 from 2 last summer, and this has been revised to 6 from 3 from 17th May in Tier 2. It will be 8 from 3 in Tier 1 and 10 from 4 in Tier 0. Last summer hospitality outlets were required to take the contact details of one person per group (the responsible person) and at point of booking the organiser had to declare how many were in the group and how many households made up the group, with 6 and 2 the respective upper limits. I heard Leitch talking about how different households within groups should socially distance from each other where possible, but this was clearly advisory and was not specifically stipulated in the regulations. I just can’t see the regulations and enforcement regime being more draconian than last summer given where we are with the vaccination rollout, and given that financial support for hospitality is being drastically scaled down.

Hospitality outlets are able to put in place mitigations such as perspex screens between tables to reduce distancing to 1m+, but how could they realistically be  expected to implement similar mitigations within groups? That would require full disclosure from each group of which customers made up one household, and which made up another, and then seating arrangements, distancing and mitigations would have to be enforced accordingly. That simply wasn’t happening, and wasn’t required, anywhere in the industry. Individuals within groups would presumably be able to observe distancing if they wished (where space permitted), but in the real world, with staff already heavily burdened by existing mitigations and regulations - collecting contact details, ensuring no mixing between groups, attending to rigorous hygiene protocols, cleaning up scrupulously after and before bookings, advising customers to wear masks while moving around the venue, entering and exiting etc., it’s just not remotely realistic to expect them to enforce social distancing within groups. I suspect it’s always been a tacit assumption that while social distancing between households within groups in hospitality is desirable, it’s not remotely enforceable or realistic, or indeed economically sustainable for the sector. If it had genuinely been a government priority we’d have heard a lot more about it than just a few vague murmurings from Jason Leitch. 

England’s rule has always (since last summer) been max group size 6 from up to 6 households, but it’s avowed aim is to ditch all social restrictions, including social distancing, from 21st June, so there is simply no comparison with Scotland, where SD has no end in sight. The false equivalence made by so many between England and Scotland’s respective hospitality restrictions is just nonsense. In Scotland we’re also rolling on the self-defeating curfews (8.00pm in Tier 3, 10.30pm Tier 2, 11.00pm Tier 1 and only back to normal licensing hours in Tier 0), whereas England has ditched curfews altogether. In Scotland we’re hoping to be in Tier 0 by the end of June, but Tier 0 does not remove social distancing, and while it’s 1m+ for hospitality it remains strictly 2m for live performances. Nightclubs can’t reopen in Tier 0, and absolutely no-one within the industry thinks that live music is remotely viable with social distancing.  I book and promote live music, and while English venues are confirming shows left right and centre for the autumn, Scottish venues and promoters are unable to offer any guarantees that any non socially-distanced live music shows will happen in Scotland in 2021. The reaction of colleagues down south to the disparities in ongoing restrictions between England and Scotland is a mixture of incredulity, bemusement and sympathy. The recently announced (and long rumoured) plans by Edinburgh Festival for socially distanced marquee-style outdoor events in August isn’t exactly an encouraging sign that we’re anywhere near a return to normality. Given the last Strategic Framework grants to businesses (to alleviate the financial burden imposed by government restrictions) have been awarded today, then with restrictions in the form of SD rolling on seemingly without an end date, Scottish businesses are on the verge of being left high and dry with no government support, save furlough, which finishes at the end of Sept. 

Given the pace of the vaccination rollout, and having come this far at great expense to both the taxpayer and businesses, I assume the intention isn’t just to throw the entire Scottish hospitality, nightclub, events and live music sectors on the bonfire now, so I expect the intention is for social distancing in these sectors to be dispensed with before the end of this year (and Sturgeon herself has hinted as much recently). SG surely can’t be labouring under the misapprehension that these sectors can survive with onerous restrictions remaining in place and no support. But the continuing absence of a road map and timetable back to normality is intensely worrying.

Edited by Frankie S
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4 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

In the local paper here 3 (all Turkish / Iranian) have been issued a warning by trading standards for not following regs by allowing customers to queue sitting inside. The businesses have played the race card though which is simply idiotic. One of them was fined for opening during lockdown so would have been watched closely.

I'd much rather make an appointment right now than stand 10 deep in a queue outside to be honest

Got my haircut at a Turkish Barbers in Glasgow no bother, sat and waited inside with a few inside. No appointment. The barber said I could take my mask off if I wanted.

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Backtracking and amending etc is absolute nonsense, how can a business owner know if their business is viable, say a small cafe with 8 tables that just about gets by, but almost overnight they loose half their tables etc? They really are just making this stuff up as they go and testing opinion in the media, its amateurish nonsense. They dont seem to get just how many people will be left in ruin or jobless because of their desperate attempts to pander to the lovejoys. 
I'm not sure too many owners will do anything different from before and no one will bother too much. They will get as many tables, people in as they can get away with basically.
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Got my haircut at a Turkish Barbers in Glasgow no bother, sat and waited inside with a few inside. No appointment. The barber said I could take my mask off if I wanted.
Yes they appear to be the ones willing to flout the rules in place. A bit galling though for those following the letter of the law but that's life in general I suppose. No matter how under control things are, sitting inside beside strangers unmasked isn't the best way to keep a lid on things until everyone vulnerable has had both doses. Poor imo but happening here too as I pointed out. Personally I'll avoid those places until after my 2nd dose.
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1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Backtracking and amending etc is absolute nonsense, how can a business owner know if their business is viable, say a small cafe with 8 tables that just about gets by, but almost overnight they loose half their tables etc? They really are just making this stuff up as they go and testing opinion in the media, its amateurish nonsense. They dont seem to get just how many people will be left in ruin or jobless because of their desperate attempts to pander to the lovejoys. 

I think it is at least commendable that they are willing to adapt to criticism.

It does, however, highlight an out of touchness from the decision makers to produce the proposals in the first place.

It should be quite obvious that if they allow 4 people from 2 households to go out for dinner or drinks together that those four people are not going to want to sit 1m apart when doing so.

All that they are doing (again) is encouraging people to meet in private homes, where they have no chance of having any sort of control, and pushing people away from hospitality venues who have been absolutely starved of revenue.

You get the impression this may have been chucked in last minute as a knee jerk, pant-shitting response to the scenes of people enjoying themselves down in England.

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19 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:
1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
Backtracking and amending etc is absolute nonsense, how can a business owner know if their business is viable, say a small cafe with 8 tables that just about gets by, but almost overnight they loose half their tables etc? They really are just making this stuff up as they go and testing opinion in the media, its amateurish nonsense. They dont seem to get just how many people will be left in ruin or jobless because of their desperate attempts to pander to the lovejoys. 

I'm not sure too many owners will do anything different from before and no one will bother too much. They will get as many tables, people in as they can get away with basically.

Aye but then one of Devi Sridhars followers on twitter snaps a picture and reports them to the council environmental health or something and they get shafted? Remember just a week ago, polls showing the idiocy of the collective with everyone saying overwhelmingly that THEY will stick to rules but scoffing and expecting OTHERS to not follow rules. Its not worth it for these folks to risk their business in the hope that someone doesnt Lee Wallace them. 

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I think it is at least commendable that they are willing to adapt to criticism.

It does, however, highlight an out of touchness from the decision makers to produce the proposals in the first place.

It should be quite obvious that if they allow 4 people from 2 households to go out for dinner or drinks together that those four people are not going to want to sit 1m apart when doing so.

All that they are doing (again) is encouraging people to meet in private homes, where they have no chance of having any sort of control, and pushing people away from hospitality venues who have been absolutely starved of revenue.

You get the impression this may have been chucked in last minute as a knee jerk, pant-shitting response to the scenes of people enjoying themselves down in England.

Aye but cmon to f**k man, youve got a government advised by an army of civil servants, business and scientific advisors and this is the sort of amateurish shite they are hitting out with? They are quite rightly getting it tight for their absolutely shite proposals. 
Again, where is the personal responsibility? If i want to meet my mate and his mrs for a meal in a restaurant, im making a specific judgement that I wish to be in their company, the mrs and I are fully vaccinated and able to risk assess and decide which environments we wish to be in in the overall circumstances. I dont need the government to make hysterical suggestions about sitting one meter apart especially given we are in a fantastic position with treatments, vaccine roll out/uptake and low case numbers. That a group of people on a Scottish football forum can spot obvious madness in government policy and significant flaws in their decision making processes is quite telling about the quality of the decisions being made. 
 

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56 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

Even assuming there is some notional assumption that different households will socially distance within groups, this was absolutely not being enforced in the summer anywhere, and would be almost unenforceable in any case. The hospitality sector is already on its knees with 1m+ social distancing between groups. Hospitality in England has always had a rule of maximum group size of 6 from multiple households (i.e. 6 people from up to 6 households). Social distancing everyone in a 6 person group made up from 6 different households simply isn’t feasible, as the vast majority of bars and restaurants simply don’t have the space, (they’d need giant tables in aircraft hanger-sized venues).

The strategy has always been that groups should be self-policing. Scotland had a group rule of 6 from 2 last summer, and this has been revised to 6 from 3 from 17th May in Tier 2. It will be 8 from 3 in Tier 1 and 10 from 4 in Tier 0. Last summer hospitality outlets were required to take the contact details of one person per group (the responsible person) and at point of booking the organiser had to declare how many were in the group and how many households made up the group, with 6 and 2 the respective upper limits. I heard Leitch talking about how different households within groups should socially distance from each other where possible, but this was clearly advisory and was not specifically stipulated in the regulations. I just can’t see the regulations and enforcement regime being more draconian than last summer given where we are with the vaccination rollout, and given that financial support for hospitality is being drastically scaled down.

Hospitality outlets are able to put in place mitigations such as perspex screens between tables to reduce distancing to 1m+, but how could they realistically be  expected to implement similar mitigations within groups? That would require full disclosure from each group of which customers made up one household, and which made up another, and then seating arrangements, distancing and mitigations would have to be enforced accordingly. That simply wasn’t happening, and wasn’t required, anywhere in the industry. Individuals within groups would presumably be able to observe distancing if they wished (where space permitted), but in the real world, with staff already heavily burdened by existing mitigations and regulations - collecting contact details, ensuring no mixing between groups, attending to rigorous hygiene protocols, cleaning up scrupulously after and before bookings, advising customers to wear masks while moving around the venue, entering and exiting etc., it’s just not remotely realistic to expect them to enforce social distancing within groups. I suspect it’s always been a tacit assumption that while social distancing between households within groups in hospitality is desirable, it’s not remotely enforceable or realistic, or indeed economically sustainable for the sector. If it had genuinely been a government priority we’d have heard a lot more about it than just a few vague murmurings from Jason Leitch. 

England’s rule has always (since last summer) been max group size 6 from up to 6 households, but it’s avowed aim is to ditch all social restrictions, including social distancing, from 21st June, so there is simply no comparison with Scotland, where SD has no end in sight. The false equivalence made by so many between England and Scotland’s respective hospitality restrictions is just nonsense. In Scotland we’re also rolling on the self-defeating curfews (8.00pm in Tier 3, 10.30pm Tier 2, 11.00pm Tier 1 and only back to normal licensing hours in Tier 0), whereas England has ditched curfews altogether. In Scotland we’re hoping to be in Tier 0 by the end of June, but Tier 0 does not remove social distancing, and while it’s 1m+ for hospitality it remains strictly 2m for live performances. Nightclubs can’t reopen in Tier 0, and absolutely no-one within the industry thinks that live music is remotely viable with social distancing.  I book and promote live music, and while English venues are confirming shows left right and centre for the autumn, Scottish venues and promoters are unable to offer any guarantees that any non socially-distanced live music shows will happen in Scotland in 2021. The reaction of colleagues down south to the disparities in ongoing restrictions between England and Scotland is a mixture of incredulity, bemusement and sympathy. The recently announced (and long rumoured) plans by Edinburgh Festival for socially distanced marquee-style outdoor events in August isn’t exactly an encouraging sign that we’re anywhere near a return to normality. Given the last Strategic Framework grants to businesses (to alleviate the financial burden imposed by government restrictions) have been awarded today, then with restrictions in the form of SD rolling on seemingly without an end date, Scottish businesses are on the verge of being left high and dry with no government support, save furlough, which finishes at the end of Sept. 

Given the pace of the vaccination rollout, and having come this far at great expense to both the taxpayer and businesses, I assume the intention isn’t just to throw the entire Scottish hospitality, nightclub, events and live music sectors on the bonfire now, so I expect the intention is for social distancing in these sectors to be dispensed with before the end of this year (and Sturgeon herself has hinted as much recently). SG surely can’t be labouring under the misapprehension that these sectors can survive with onerous restrictions remaining in place and no support. But the continuing absence of a road map and timetable back to normality is intensely worrying.

The guidance reads that the curfew is for indoor hospitality only has your trade body clarified that as for all hospitality?

"pubs, cafes and restaurants will reopen outdoors for groups of up to six people from up to six households with alcohol in line with local licencing laws, and indoors for groups of up to six people from up to two households without alcohol until 20:00"

 

ETA unless I guess your licencing board has introduced a curfew which is utterly pointless and like you say going to counter the positive steps to get indoor and outdoor hospitality back on its feet asap.

Edited by 101
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The head of the Sanger Institute repping Chise's level-headed and fact-based analysis:

An anonymous furry is truly turning out to be one of the leading voices of the pandemic. What a time to be alive.

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‘Everyone visiting a hospitality setting must remain at least 1 metre apart from the next person, unless from the same household or a carer.’

That is probably the worst rule yet of these new restrictions. But you can sit in a church with 50 people or walk around a shop without any issues :lol: 

Would not be surprised if any venues ignore that shocking rule. The SG couldn’t give a toss about the hospitality industry. 

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Forgive me for being behind but under current plans if things continue on roughly the path we are on England will get rid of social distancing in mid June but it will remain in Scotland? So, as stated above by the bar owner, no nightclubs or gigs in Scotland?

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Just now, ICTChris said:

Forgive me for being behind but under current plans if things continue on roughly the path we are on England will get rid of social distancing in mid June but it will remain in Scotland? So, as stated above by the bar owner, no nightclubs or gigs in Scotland?

Think clubs won’t be open when we reach level 0 by end of June. 

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Just now, ICTChris said:

Forgive me for being behind but under current plans if things continue on roughly the path we are on England will get rid of social distancing in mid June but it will remain in Scotland? So, as stated above by the bar owner, no nightclubs or gigs in Scotland?

Silent raves & socially distanced mosh pits only.

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Certainly raised a surprised eyebrow at the Devi Pokemon stunt. It’s the type of trash I’d normally expect from some tiresome cheeky chappie like Alistair “Ally” McCoist when he’s whittering on about inconsequential pish. It’s less welcome from a prominent contributor in the COVID debate.

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Is there due to be an announcement this week on what the full restrictions/guidance will be from next week?

I know its meant to be level 3, but I've  had a look at the most recent level 3 guidance and its a mess. Things like group exercise are fully banned,  something that has been dropped in level 4. Surely a full update will be done?

Edited by parsforlife
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4 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

The fact that SPFL clubs are allowed to continue live streaming games next season makes me think the usual 300 crowd at Stair Park will still be locked out come July. What an absolute minter considering it’s outdoors and the vulnerable/elderly will be double dosed by then 

Hibs will be doing a ballot per game for those that renew/buy season tickets for home games next season.

So you could go to watch Hibs play Livingston at home but miss out the next home game against Hearts for example. 

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6 minutes ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Hibs will be doing a ballot per game for those that renew/buy season tickets for home games next season.

So you could go to watch Hibs play Livingston at home but miss out the next home game against Hearts for example. 

Who gives a f**k?  We’ll all be watching the ESL on TV anyway.  Custom designed for a pandemic.

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