Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[superbigal]

All this mutant talk reminds me I have to nip down to the South of Fife for a delivery.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

7 minutes ago, s_dog said:

No because there is currently at fairly medium level of community transmission in Scotland, whereas is much of mainland Europe it's high. And the lower the virus rates, the less chance there is for it to mutate. 

No one is arguing for travel to places with massive or significantly higher rates of transmission. Im one of the more liberal folks in terms of opening up but even I support being sensible about foreign travel, what I have an issue with is restricting travel to places where rates are similar to ours and vaccination rates are also high. 

[8MileBU]

3 hours ago, madwullie said:

Fucking yas. Missed this kinda shit so much. We went for it a day early. Arrest me  

Where is this @madwullie? Looks amazing. Cracking day for it! 

Have to admit, I’ve been flouting the rules a bit recently too.  

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

12 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Far be it from me to defend the "variant~~!!~~" crowd, but that would be true on an individual level (ie it is as likely between two set individuals in Scotland as two set individuals in India, for example), but when you open borders you are exposing yourself to magnitudes more people, so greater chance of multiple and/or a more dangerous variant.

That's not to say I agree with never letting anyone go somewhere ever again btw.

I know, thats not even remotely what im arguing about, it has to be done sensibly but for me that does not include a blanket ban on travel, the traffic light system is how it should be opened up. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Can't be fucked checking back to see if these have been posted yet, but the cigar-worthy numbers continue unabated. 

• 237 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 23,580 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 1.2% of these were positive
• 1 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 16 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 115 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 2,708,691 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 661,975 have received their second dose

[Jacksgranda]

24 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Far be it from me to defend the "variant~~!!~~" crowd, but that would be true on an individual level (ie it is as likely between two set individuals in Scotland as two set individuals in India, for example), but when you open borders you are exposing yourself to magnitudes more people, so greater chance of multiple and/or a more dangerous variant.

That's not to say I agree with never letting anyone go somewhere ever again btw.

Better safe than sorry, confiscate all passports, imho.

[Todd_is_God]

59 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Do you think they understand that a new variant is just as likely to mutate between two people in Scotland as it is from abroad?

I think it's important to remember that NS is not a virologist or epidemiologist, and I doubt any of the current SG are either.

NS is in no position to have any conviction about that, and is relying on the advice she gets from her body of "experts"

The problem comes from that body of experts containing #ZeroCovid zealots like Devi Sridhar, mouthing off very regularly about the dangers of variants from foreign travel.

So much so that, if she relaxes restrictions and the extremely unlikely scenario of a vaccine evading variant does arrive from abroad, she'd be absolutely crucified for not listening.

I've long thought that advisers making public their advice is a mistake - if we were planning a war, for example, there's not a chance you'd have advisers discussing the pros and cons of different strategies in public.

Exiting lockdown would have been a hell of a lot easier had advisers kept their advice behind closed doors.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Far be it from me to defend the "variant~~!!~~" crowd, but that would be true on an individual level (ie it is as likely between two set individuals in Scotland as two set individuals in India, for example), but when you open borders you are exposing yourself to magnitudes more people, so greater chance of multiple and/or a more dangerous variant.
That's not to say I agree with never letting anyone go somewhere ever again btw.

There's always a risk in opening up anything, be it schools, travel, shops etc.

It's whether that risk is worth taking or not.

Even when travel does open up - and that will be determined not just by the UK government but what other countries do - it may well be that individuals make those choices themselves, deciding the risk (and cost) is worth it or not.

Personally, I'm not even considering anywhere until October, due to our personal circumstances, but also due to the reality that even when travel does open up, many destinations will have restrictions in place meaning only partial opening of facilitie. That's fine for a few days away but not my idea of fun for an extended break.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I think it's important to remember that NS is not a virologist or epidemiologist, and I doubt any of the current SG are either.
NS is in no position to have any conviction about that, and is relying on the advice she gets from her body of "experts"
The problem comes from that body of experts containing #ZeroCovid zealots like Devi Sridhar, mouthing off very regularly about the dangers of variants from foreign travel.
So much so that, if she relaxes restrictions and the extremely unlikely scenario of a vaccine evading variant does arrive from abroad, she'd be absolutely crucified for not listening.
I've long thought that advisers making public their advice is a mistake - if we were planning a war, for example, there's not a chance you'd have advisers discussing the pros and cons of different strategies in public.
Exiting lockdown would have been a hell of a lot easier had advisers kept their advice behind closed doors.

Sirdar, I assume, is just one of the experts giving advice? I personally have no issue with her giving advice but she shouldn't be on Twitter 24/7 doing it.

At the end of the day it's still the politicians who have to make the decisions - and that will not solely be a scientific matter but have to take on board political and economic factors.

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, Wee Bully said:

Yes, it is callous.  What you are saying is:

Young people = valuable

Old people = expendable

Some may have been towards the end of their lives, but many had a good number of years ahead of them.  Take a look at yourself.

 

I wouldn't call it callous. It's also a lot more complex than summing it up in the two lines you mentioned.

I've mentioned it before but it seems that there is an (of course, understandable) aversion to talking about the eventualities and realities of death. One day, we'll all be part of that 'expendable generation' if we're fortunate enough to live that long.

I saw an interesting posting on twitter earlier from some nutjob anti-vaxxer who tried to claim that the vaccine programme has killed over 2,000 people in the US alone and when asked to present evidence, came up with this.

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?EVENTS=on&PAGENO=1&PERPAGE=10&ESORT=&REVERSESORT=&VAX=(COVID19)&DIED=Yes

A list of 2,300 people who received a vaccine and died within anything from two hours to two weeks.

He was using it to try and back up this claim that the vaccine is poisonous and is killing people needlessly and although he's clearly talking bullshit and there's no correlation whatsoever (one person I saw on this list got the vaccine and then fucking shot themselves two days later and he's using that as one example to make his point that the vaccine is somehow related?!).

The venn diagram of people first in line for a vaccine and people most at risk of imminent death is pretty much a circle and taking into consideration the sheer numbers of jags put into arms upon rollout, then of course some people who happened to be at the front of the queue for a vaccine will pass away. The value in the article though is that it did provide a strong indicator of the condition that a huge number of people who have been prioritised for vaccines are in. 

Interestingly, each case also lists the individual's age, health conditions and ongoing medications.

Now I'm not suggesting you pore over 235 pages of these reports but please just pick a cross section at random and just have a look at the conditions the majority (not just some - but the majority) of the people on this list had.  You'll also note that a high percentage of these deaths do not even appear to be covid related, they are people who die because they are very, very unwell. The people on this list who were healthy and had many years of life ahead appear to be the exception rather than the rule but again, those outliers happen in all circumstances, not just relating to covid.

The point I'm making is that saying some people are more likely to pass away than others, be it from covid or otherwise, isn't callous. It's also not dismissive of what each family has gone through (though the poster could have framed that point a bit better).

Edited April 15, 2021 by djchapsticks

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Sirdar, I assume, is just one of the experts giving advice? I personally have no issue with her giving advice but she shouldn't be on Twitter 24/7 doing it.

At the end of the day it's still the politicians who have to make the decisions - and that will not solely be a scientific matter but have to take on board political and economic factors.

I do. She's not a virologist or epidemiologist, therefore her advice is worth little. For the same reason she absolutely should not be plastering it all over Twitter or appearing on TV.

We are now 14 months into the epidemic - the body of advisers should be made up almost entirely of epidemiologists and virologists, to enable NS to make political decisions based on the greatest amount of advice from qualified people as possible.

The role of people like Devi Sridhar, in her capacity as a Public Health expert, comes after the pandemic. Investigating what can be learned from the handling of it to prepare a more effective strategy for any future HCoV pandemics, similar to her role in the aftermath of the Ebola epidemic.

[madwullie]

1 hour ago, 8MileBU said:

Where is this @madwullie? Looks amazing. Cracking day for it! 

Have to admit, I’ve been flouting the rules a bit recently too.  

Just north of Balmaha mate. Through the town up the lochside road two or three miles and there's a couple of car-parks on the left. 

[Donathan]

Surprising that Sturgeon is only getting vaccinated today. Most people I know in her age group were done weeks ago

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Surprising that Sturgeon is only getting vaccinated today. Most people I know in her age group were done weeks ago

Imagine she was first in line for her age group, she'd be murdered. She'll be the last of her age group to go through it. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I do. She's not a virologist or epidemiologist, therefore her advice is worth little. For the same reason she absolutely should not be plastering it all over Twitter or appearing on TV.
We are now 14 months into the epidemic - the body of advisers should be made up almost entirely of epidemiologists and virologists, to enable NS to make political decisions based on the greatest amount of advice from qualified people as possible.
The role of people like Devi Sridhar, in her capacity as a Public Health expert, comes after the pandemic. Investigating what can be learned from the handling of it to prepare a more effective strategy for any future HCoV pandemics, similar to her role in the aftermath of the Ebola epidemic.

I think you misunderstand what I've said - she has a role to give advice but she is not the only person giving that advice.

She certainly shouldn't be pushing her own narrow opinion, irrespective if you agree or disagree with it, and no matter her level of expertise, on social media. Advice to government should be completely private and only published by the government not by her.

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I think you misunderstand what I've said - she has a role to give advice but she is not the only person giving that advice.

She certainly shouldn't be pushing her own narrow opinion, irrespective if you agree or disagree with it, and no matter her level of expertise, on social media. Advice to government should be completely private and only published by the government not by her.

I didn't misunderstand you at all.  Just making the point that, no matter how many people are involved in giving advice, she should have no role as she isn't qualified to give any.

That NS is still taking advice from a group of people largely unqualified to do so reflects poorly on her IMO.

I'm pretty sure Devi Sridhar is good at what she does within her area of expertise, but she should stick to that, rather than sharing her pessimistic opinions (and that is all they are) on twitter and with literally anyone who will give her the limelight.

[Elixir]

42 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Surprising that Sturgeon is only getting vaccinated today. Most people I know in her age group were done weeks ago

Sridhar told her it didn't work.

[Lyle Lanley]

17 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Sridhar told her it didn't work.

We just don't know. 

[Marshmallo]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/14/pandemic-tutting-scolds-change-distrust-bodies-fatal?__twitter_impression=true

Decent write up on that "I'm great and everyone else is vermin scum" stuff 

[Wee Bully]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Imagine she was first in line for her age group, she'd be murdered. She'll be the last of her age group to go through it. 

Correct - it’s called “Servant Leadership”. I use it in business all the time.