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23 minutes ago, Elixir said:

I think I actually hate the SNP now. Never again will they get my vote.

I'd be astounded if that happens. No way do the SNP support the Tories in a vote, especially during an election campaign. It would be electoral suicide. To give this context, not even Labour are supporting it. Or even abstaining for once. 

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35 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Clear indication that Sturgeon wants them up here then.

It's exactly the sort of weirdo policy the SNP seem to love. You just know 'new normal' biosecurity fetishists like Sridhar will be all for it as well and in their ear. The utter audacity and hypocrisy of which given how much she rallied against the apparent two-tier society a 'protect the vulnerable' strategy would supposedly create.

Despite the fact the WHO are now officially opposing vaccine passports, even for international travel. The SNP certainly seem to appear to like citing WHO advice...

Meanwhile, it seems they won't be a thing in America, though I don't see how they ever could given how different it would make already divided Democrat and Republican states.

26 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Isobel Oakshott basically saying OK for international, nah for domestic, on Sky News at the moment.

the world is screwed if I’m agreeing with Isobel Oakshott.

It is truly a bizarre time. I have found myself agreeing with and seeing more sense from people who I typically thought of as my political polar opposite.

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28 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'd be astounded if that happens. No way do the SNP support the Tories in a vote, especially during an election campaign. It would be electoral suicide. To give this context, not even Labour are supporting it. Or even abstaining for once. 

Will the vote even happen before the election?

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It won’t be electoral suicide. Not only are vaccine passports very popular the numbers of voters who currently plan to vote SNP but would change their vote because of this is probably in the dozens.

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Exactly.
You can spend 5 minutes on Google, find something credible which completely debunks Sridhar or Leitch’s drivel, present it to them online and probably get a block because it touches a nerve (ignoring the fact that logic alone would clamp them a peach)
It’s not about being an expert, it’s about using articles/facts from people who do know what they’re on about to challenge and question. Is the alternative just to let experts and politicians away with whatever they like?

You see, this is where it all falls down.

I’ve specialised in my field (VAT - not the most interesting) for 25 years.

I give advice to clients, and sometimes they google something (normally because I’ve told them something they didn’t want to hear) and present it to me with a flourish. Without fail, it has been wrong, or they have misunderstood what they have read.

I love it, as it gives me the chance to explain in painfully small (but expensive) steps, just why they were wrong.

Google doesn’t make you an expert. Everything is there. Sometimes, however, you need to either have some experience, or read around the easy answer you’ve found.

Now this is just VAT - the easiest of the taxes (as my corporate tax colleagues tell me). Virology or epidemiology? I think they might be a wee bit more complicated.

However, if you think “5 minutes on google” makes you an expert, launch in.
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4 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:


You see, this is where it all falls down.

I’ve specialised in my field (VAT - not the most interesting) for 25 years.

I give advice to clients, and sometimes they google something (normally because I’ve told them something they didn’t want to hear) and present it to me with a flourish. Without fail, it has been wrong, or they have misunderstood what they have read.

I love it, as it gives me the chance to explain in painfully small (but expensive) steps, just why they were wrong.

Google doesn’t make you an expert. Everything is there. Sometimes, however, you need to either have some experience, or read around the easy answer you’ve found.

Now this is just VAT - the easiest of the taxes (as my corporate tax colleagues tell me). Virology or epidemiology? I think they might be a wee bit more complicated.

However, if you think “5 minutes on google” makes you an expert, launch in.

It doesn't make me an expert, however it gives me easy access to articles experts who are often able to articulate in relative layman's terms a particular point of view, or why they think another expert might be wrong in their approach.

Today is a good example - couple of decent articles in the Telegraph about why the latest government modelling is wrong, based on out of date data etc. The articles are logical and make sense to me.

Should I therefore not be allowed to question the initial modelling on the basis that I've no expertise in modelling data, or come to the conclusion that we're being led up the garden path?  It might be that more information comes to light as to why the original modelling was accurate, and things like Twitter allow for the conversation to flow and for both sides to understand the debate and intricacies better.

If we're discouraged from challenging things simply because others have a better understanding of it than we do, then we're all absolutely fucked I'm afraid.

 

 

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Quote

A KEY Covid adviser to Nicola Sturgeon has warned that the UK is already repeating the mistakes it made last summer with lockdown easing.

Professor Devi Sridhar, chair of global public health at Edinburgh University, today said easing up restrictions when it comes to travel might be a "mistake".

Speaking on Good Morning Britain Prof Sridhar said: "Why are we focused on holidays abroad? It feels like we are repeating the mistakes of last summer.

“We have just got schools back open, we are just getting pubs and hospitality back on their feet, let’s focus on a full domestic recovery.

“Getting back to some normal daily life within the country and then we can look at getting aviation going.

“I’m afraid it we accelerate too quickly then there could potentially be another lockdown, and no one wants another lockdown, we can’t do this again.”

Last summer Scots were able to go on holiday and travel to certain countries.

Throughout the summer months quarantine rules came into play for people returning from trips abroad, in order to make sure that if they had picked up an infection on holiday they did not bring it home with them.

Prof Shridhar said one of the pain issues with people returning to the UK from their trips abroad is the amount of money they are given to self isolate.

She added: "We have to remember that isolation is an act of goodwill, you isolate to not infect others, you are already infected yourself or you are potentially carrying the virus.

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/6924670/lockdown-professor-devi-sridhar-scotland-travel/

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52 minutes ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Why does nobody pull up this clown and tell her vaccines weren’t around last summer when “mistakes” happened. What a moonhowler. 

Shes probably in favour of vaccine passports domestically as well 🙄

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Ive been surprised recently just how much travel has still been happening , I saw on the Manchester news recently that In January alone 15000 people travelled to one country in particular from manchester airport, so the January amount in total must of been far higher for just that one airport. It cant all be essential travel.

Im living outside Scotland and would really hope I can get over soon for a visit so its a bit surprise to see just how much travel has still been going on 

 

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You think we will ever hear soon about travel to and from abroad and what will be required. Im not talking holidays but plenty people nowadays living abroad or people in Scotland from other countries and at some point all wanting to travel to see family etc

 

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10,000 more than I expected to be allowed. This is a good sign.

I also noticed today that the Irish government and the FAI just said they cannot guarantee fans at the Aviva stadium.
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8 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'd be astounded if that happens. No way do the SNP support the Tories in a vote, especially during an election campaign. It would be electoral suicide. To give this context, not even Labour are supporting it. Or even abstaining for once. 

It's almost as if the SNP agree with the Tories on more issues than they would have you believe. 

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It doesn't make me an expert, however it gives me easy access to articles experts who are often able to articulate in relative layman's terms a particular point of view, or why they think another expert might be wrong in their approach.
Today is a good example - couple of decent articles in the Telegraph about why the latest government modelling is wrong, based on out of date data etc. The articles are logical and make sense to me.
Should I therefore not be allowed to question the initial modelling on the basis that I've no expertise in modelling data, or come to the conclusion that we're being led up the garden path?  It might be that more information comes to light as to why the original modelling was accurate, and things like Twitter allow for the conversation to flow and for both sides to understand the debate and intricacies better.
If we're discouraged from challenging things simply because others have a better understanding of it than we do, then we're all absolutely fucked I'm afraid.
 
 

So, not only do you feel equipped to challenge the views of an expert based on an article in the Telegraph, you also believe that Twitter (of all places) allows a nuanced conversation / debate?

Edited to add - nothing wrong with you asking questions btw.
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6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Ach I don't know. I have a more optimistic view that after a few months we'll be back to ripping the arse out of the environment and stuffing our houses with plastic tat again as though nothing had ever happened. :P

That tends to be the reality when any bad event happens. If anything I think people will overcompensate for the last year and we'll see a surge in pub usage, car purchases, house sales and money spent on "experiences" etc. It'll be like post-war Britain. Can't wait to see what happens when the football opens up again. Wouldn't be surprised to find a surge in crowd sizes at most grounds - temporary or otherwise.

I think people will realise how close they came to losing all of these things having taken them for granted for years.

Will be interesting to see.

The thing about the “Roaring Twenties” is that it only really applied to the rich. There was a huge grab of wealth by the richest people in society. For most people, this era didn’t really exist. They were just left with graves to mourn and PTSD to overcome.

So lets hope we don’t see a repeat of those days.

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6 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Nice to see America has binned talk of vaccine passports. If a country as batshit crazy as America can see that domestic vaccine passports are a crock of shit then surely enough people here can as well. 

You must be mistaken, only yesterday Detournement had said that vaccine passports was not solely a UK issue but a worldwide one as the US were pushing forward with them.

Edited by djchapsticks
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