Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Bairnardo]

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

[Spider Rico]

“In the long term, social distancing means taking time off work when you feel unwell, it also means better hand hygiene and washing our hands for longer, he states.”

More like it from Patrick Vallance. If he can just reign in the “long term” part 

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

13 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I know I said this earlier, but when these big scary predictions predictably do not happen, those behind them should be jailed.
Ludicrous predictions that have serious consequences on the liberties of people cannot be allowed to go unpunished.

It's really not helped by the PM standing there and saying vaccines alone are now not enough and we don't know how much protection they actually provide.

You cannot be that naïve to believe that is BJ's personal opinion? He's not a scientist - his opinion is guided and shaped by the advice he receives. That advice, when it turns out to be utterly baseless bollocks, should result in heavy penalties for those giving it.

[jimbaxters]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

Second this. It's very worrying. The thing I don't get is why it is all panning out this way. Why anyone with a regard for human life would want to continue with restrictions in the face of vaccinations is beyond me.

[craigkillie]

10 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I know I said this earlier, but when these big scary predictions predictably do not happen, those behind them should be jailed.

Ludicrous predictions that have serious consequences on the liberties of people cannot be allowed to go unpunished.

This is essentially advocating a step towards fascism. Being bad at your job should not be punishable by imprisonment, no matter what your job is. The predictions are not what affect the liberty of people - the liberty of people is being affected by the people who make the decisions - the fact that they might act on bad information (or at least a failure to understand the nuances of the information) is their fault for picking the wrong people to listen to. It sort of reminds me (in the opposite direction) of the Italian government trying to prosecute seismologists who failed to predict the fatal earthquake in L'Aquila in 2009.

The only possible effect of this is that scientists (and all sorts of other experts) refuse to work with the government again, and you get a bunch of yes men telling people in power exactly what they want to hear with no checks or balances.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Spider Rico said:

“In the long term, social distancing means taking time off work when you feel unwell, it also means better hand hygiene and washing our hands for longer, he states.”

More like it from Patrick Vallance. If he can just reign in the “long term” part 

Not really. We should be taking time off work when we are unwell. Doing so, however, relies on a complete overhaul of the support network for hourly paid workers who would otherwise lose out on a few days' wages.

What he's describing there is the absolute minimum that should be expected in a developed nation.

[pandarilla]

That's me all souped up with Pfizery goodness after my second dose.

I take a decent load of tramadol every day so hopefully no side effects.

[Bairnardo]

Second this. It's very worrying. The thing I don't get is why it is all panning out this way. Why anyone with a regard for human life would want to continue with restrictions in the face of vaccinations is beyond me.

The government need to drown out all the fucking noise by removing emergency powers, and placing the onus on people and businesses to manage their own risk tolerance.

In this way, people who want to cower away can do so, and seek out online deliveries forevermore, and people who want to socialise and have a life can frequent businesses who cater for such.

Independent sage psychos and their like can then keep their fucking stupid opinions to themselves, whilst the government can work in the background to evaluate the need for further vaccination and ensure the NHS remains operational

[Todd_is_God]

18 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This is essentially advocating a step towards fascism. Being bad at your job should not be punishable by imprisonment, no matter what your job is. The predictions are not what affect the liberty of people - the liberty of people is being affected by the people who make the decisions - the fact that they might act on bad information (or at least a failure to understand the nuances of the information) is their fault for picking the wrong people to listen to. It sort of reminds me (in the opposite direction) of the Italian government trying to prosecute seismologists who failed to predict the fatal earthquake in L'Aquila in 2009.

The only possible effect of this is that scientists (and all sorts of other experts) refuse to work with the government again, and you get a bunch of yes men telling people in power exactly what they want to hear with no checks or balances.

Being deliberately or maliciously misleading, however, should be, dependant on circumstances. We're not talking about someone making an error at work that costs a business a bit of money, we are talking about the Prime Minister being fed enough nonsense modelling and scaremongering predictions from experts, who have chosen at every turn to ignore decades worth of scientific understanding, that he believes he has no choice other than to continue to impose severe restrictions on the everyday lives of the population.

That they are happy to come out and slate him in the media if he dares to not listen to every drop of their doom and gloom predictions which removes the Devi Sridhar-esque "Don't blame me, I only advise not make policy" protection from the harshest of penalties IMO.

f**k them.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[Mark Connolly]

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

I was reading somewhere that the Euros were looking for capacities to be decided by Wednesday.

I think if we get announcements of that we will see where we are with larger gatherings. It feels like the vaccine rollout has now covered all the at risk groups with at least one dose all the low risk stuff should be open. Pub beer gardens, sports stadiums (with some reduced capacity), all shops should be back open. I think masks for stuff like public transport should remain for a bit longer.

Unfortunately it seems like summer holidays abroad are fucked because other countries are doing shit with vaccines. And families from all over going abroad is a recipe for uncontrolled transmission.

Really surprised that the Tories aren't all over this as a celebration of britain.  Time for brits to get back to Blackpool, Skegness etc and enjoy the great british sea side.

[Left Back]

18 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This is essentially advocating a step towards fascism. Being bad at your job should not be punishable by imprisonment, no matter what your job is. The predictions are not what affect the liberty of people - the liberty of people is being affected by the people who make the decisions - the fact that they might act on bad information (or at least a failure to understand the nuances of the information) is their fault for picking the wrong people to listen to. It sort of reminds me (in the opposite direction) of the Italian government trying to prosecute seismologists who failed to predict the fatal earthquake in L'Aquila in 2009.

The only possible effect of this is that scientists (and all sorts of other experts) refuse to work with the government again, and you get a bunch of yes men telling people in power exactly what they want to hear with no checks or balances.

Even a negligent doctor?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

21 minutes ago, Spider Rico said:

“In the long term, social distancing means taking time off work when you feel unwell, it also means better hand hygiene and washing our hands for longer, he states.”

More like it from Patrick Vallance. If he can just reign in the “long term” part 

I mean people ‘soldiering on’ in workplaces absolutely should be consigned to the bin because its the height of selfish b*****dness. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

12 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I was reading somewhere that the Euros were looking for capacities to be decided by Wednesday.

I think if we get announcements of that we will see where we are with larger gatherings. It feels like the vaccine rollout has now covered all the at risk groups with at least one dose all the low risk stuff should be open. Pub beer gardens, sports stadiums (with some reduced capacity), all shops should be back open. I think masks for stuff like public transport should remain for a bit longer.

Unfortunately it seems like summer holidays abroad are fucked because other countries are doing shit with vaccines. And families from all over going abroad is a recipe for uncontrolled transmission.

Really surprised that the Tories aren't all over this as a celebration of britain.  Time for brits to get back to Blackpool, Skegness etc and enjoy the great british sea side.

I know they are planning for a George Sq fanzone with a pretty decent capacity so im hopeful!

Also with the vaccine rates and cases in places like Malta, Portugal, USA and carribeann theres no justification in not allowing travel to ‘green’ list countries. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Inanimate Carbon Rod

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Even a negligent doctor?

not if you are just shit and not acting with malice. You should just be struck of the register.

[Left Back]

7 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

not if you are just shit and not acting with malice. You should just be struck of the register.

Even if you’ve killed people by being shit?  Even with no malice that’s manslaughter.  Doctors do get jailed for it.

ETA doctors aren’t the only profession that have been jailed for manslaughter due to being shit at their jobs and I’m not picking on doctors.  They were just the obvious example where being shit can cost lives.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Left Back

[Billy Jean King]

There were a lot of side effects to allowing people to buy their own council houses. Some were negative but many were very positive indeed. The 1970s and early 1980s really was a dreadful time. Overly worrying about curtain twitching neighbours, too much influence by religions in day to day life and god forbid you were a little different from others.
People keep talking about community being lost but if community was that great people wouldn't have ditched it at the first opportunity. People come together to solve problems they can't solve themselves but ultimately we are hard-wired to be creatures of independence IMO. We don't like others controlling us and that is why IMO we moved away from community-based living.

The 1970s and early 1980s really was a dreadful time. Overly worrying about curtain twitching neighbours, too much influence by religions in day to day life and god forbid you were a little different from others.


Good grief where on earth were you living during that time ? In my neighberhoods it was absolutely nothing like that. I can think of zero instances of influence from either curtain twitching neighbours or religion on my day to day life back then. That's mental stuff.

[Empty It]

not if you are just shit and not acting with malice. You should just be struck of the register.

I'd say deliberately lying day after day to scare the public and keep yourself relevant is acting with malice tbf.

[Wee Bully]

9 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Even if you’ve killed people by being shit?  Even with no malice that’s manslaughter.  Doctors do get jailed for it.

ETA doctors aren’t the only profession that have been jailed for manslaughter due to being shit at their jobs and I’m not picking on doctors.  They were just the obvious example where being shit can cost lives.

Not in Scotland - there has never been a doctor (or anyone else) charged with manslaughter in Scotland, much less jailed.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Wee Bully

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

5 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Even if you’ve killed people by being shit?  Even with no malice that’s manslaughter.  Doctors do get jailed for it.

I guess it depends on how negligent you are.  If they do something that directly leads to a death that was obviously wrong then that is probably manslaughter. But being a surgeon who just isn;t as good as they need to be, not manslaughter imo.