Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, David W said:

I'm looking at a Devi turnaround as a massive minter.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

I have had enough of the nonsense surrounding organised outdoor activities, of which, football is only one, so here goes. Make of it what you will:

By last summer it became clear to the Highly qualified and experienced Neutral Professors who investigated and researched the link between the transmission of the original covid and organised outdoor activities that, provided appropriate protocols were put in place, and followed, then the risk became minimised. This specific advice was accessed by all UK Governments. You cannot, of course, rule out all risk in this. Indeed, in life, there is risk everywhere you turn. As such it became a question of managing the original covid virus risk in relation to organised outdoor activities.

In my opinion, from the start of the epidemic and right through to the summer, it seemed fair to assume that organised outdoor activities would be a source of potential covid transmission to those involved, whether playing, walking, organising, etc. The Professors, however, were completely clear that, in reality, the risk from organised outdoor activities was low and controllable. I believe that this came as a great surprise to most people, at least those I know were surprised, and relieved, to hear this news.

However, the various UK Governments each responded differently to the news. In England, for example, outdoor football was permitted under controlled circumstances. By the autumn Scotland also permitted football to go ahead. This was subject to stringent protocols put in place by the Scottish Football Association following detailed and lengthy negotiations with the Scottish Government. In other words, they wouldn't have been approved without the Scottish Government's express consent. 

From September 2020 onwards the concerns about covid altered to became a question of how to deal with the mutations of the covid coronavirus as they come along. This has been very high on the list of concerns for all Governments around the world. Indeed, in the Scottish Parliament, it has been absolutely at the top of the list of consideration when dealing with the epidemic. To the extent that it was used as a reason to halt organised outdoor activities such as football (except mainly for the Scottish Premier level of the game). 

UK Government statistics show that the numbers of identified mutant covid cases in the UK at 3rd March. 2021, were 108,895. In Scotland the figure was 4,052. Of these the VOC-202012/01 (UK/Kent variant) which was identified way back (it seems way back now) in September represented 108,337 UK cases and 4,025 cases in Scotland.

These figures came from:    Variants: distribution of cases data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk). Anyone can check these official figures which were available to all UK Governments.

These figures for covid variants start as far back as September and they surprised me as they are very small when compared with the total numbers of confirmed cases of coronavirus within the UK. Today this stands at 4,241,677. I gained the impression that as the NHS has very much seemingly got the upper-hand now in the fight against the original virus that most new cases were down to new variants. However, the statistics appear to show this is not even remotely correct. Yet it was such reasoning by the Scottish Government (or so it appears to me) which was the rationale for halting organised outdoor activities such as football below the level of the Scottish Premier. Worse, this remains their "case".

In Wales the rate of infection in the autumn was the worst in the UK. Wales also ignored the Scientific advice about organised outdoor activities. Hardly a game of football has been played there compared to Scotland since last summer. This means that football was not a factor in what happened there between the autumn and today. Playing or not playing this sport made no difference yet, in Wales, the infection figures are now the lowest of the UK nations. What else hasn't the Scottish Government been doing which allowed this dramatic change of affairs to come about?

The Scottish Governments' own Track and Trace statistics flag up the most hazardous activities which  are related to over 70% of cases. These are the Top Ten:

Top Ten			Nos of Cases		%
1	Events and Activities	Shopping	41665		20.8
2	Household or Accommodation	Your own home, or family home	23643		11.8
3	Events and Activities	Personal Care	17250		8.6
4	Work or Education	Health care	11704		5.8
5	Events and Activities	Visiting a health or social care setting	9700		4.8
6	Events and Activities	Eating out	9499		4.7
7	Events and Activities	Visiting friends or relatives	8988		4.4
8	Work or Education	Attending childcare, school, educational	7571		3.7
9	Work or Education	Social care or home care	6064		3.0
10	Work or Education	Other	6005		3.0

Given that football is subject to the Governments' agreed protective protocols it's not likely to be on any such list but everyday activities will be and are because they are risky. However, it is still treated like a prohibition offence.

In my view significant errors of decision making appear to have been made. Innocent people throughout Scotland are being scared into submitting to the will of those whose decision making does not appear to match advice from the recognised scientific experts or from evidence from elsewhere. Thousands more have been made unwitting scape-goats for poor decision making at Government level. This is not to say that all decisions being made don't make sense and that the Scottish NHS staff are not working their socks off for the people of Scotland.

Today there is a situation where there are vaccines available, even invented and produced in the UK, which are enabling the valiant staff of the NHS (and their barely mentioned Military colleagues)  throughout the UK to vaccinate against the disease and to save the lives of infected people and to reduce the effect of the virus on these people (long covid). We are so fortunate when compared with the rest of the world.

Patently the Scottish Government has, in my view, made significant errors of decision making. I sense that they are putting politics first and everything-else after that. There is a feeling of a thinking along the lines of "If I don't do anything then I cannot be accused of making a mistake ".  There is, apparently, clearly thought out and masterfully presented, truly sincere, speech making in Parliament when announcing "reasons" for not doing anything or "explaining" why nothing is to be done "at present". There is no concept that anyone out there might twig what they're up to. It reminds me of a saying from Mark Twain:

“Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow.”

Maybe I am being entirely unfair and the Scottish Government hasn't acted wisely simply because it is Scared to take responsibility for decisions or it is filled with people who are just scared of dealing with risk.  Who knows.

FWIW: Make decisions now. Do not fear making the decisions that you are paid and elected to make. Bring back organised outdoor activities immediately.

 

 

This would be fine had you pointed out that the Scottish Gov DID in fact allow the continuation of outdoor sports such as Tennis and Golf while the UK and Welsh Governments ordered a stop and as yet have still not resumed and indeed are not scheduled to recommence until March 29th, meanwhile we have been playing throughout.

[Michael W]

44 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Sounds like a slow pivot to save face.

So she's now worried about the ethical issue of a vaccine passport for international travel (which is already a defacto requirement in certain countries for the likes of yellow fever) but was otherwise happy enough advocating an outright ban on it. No ethical issues there now, was there Devi? 

Glad she's been nobbled as she's got Sturgeon's ear and was always going to be a massive blocker. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Michael W

[Left Back]

5 minutes ago, Michael W said:

So she's now worried about the ethical issue of a vaccine passport for international travel (which is already a defacto requirement in certain countries for the likes of yellow fever) but was otherwise happy enough advocating an outright ban on it. No ethical issues there now, was there Devi? 

Glad she's been nobbled as she's got Sturgeon's ear and was always going to be a massive blocker. 

There is still an ethical issue regarding foreign travel.  Should countries allow people in that haven’t been vaccinated, therefore restricting “normal” movement.  There’s already a precedent for this though as has been pointed out so for anti-vaxxers it’s a wee shame and here’s a tissue.  The bigger issue is people who can’t have the vaccine (and there are several reasons for this that have been done to death previously on this thread).

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

39 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

The ethical issue applies to domestic use surely. I have no problem with your example but I have a massive problem with its use domestically

She was saying it was an ethical issue for travel, which for me is a lot of shite, there are compassionate exemptions for many of the measures put in place and i dont see why this wont continue. Domestically i disagree with the roll out of passports but if it means i dont need to go use lateral flow tests etc then i’d use one. 

[vikingTON]

Good to see some positive indications from Linda Bould instead of sticking with the psycho clique. Meanwhile:

Quote

 

Prof Leitch told the programme a great deal has been learned in the last year and praised the resilience of the population.

But he added: "We are not out of the woods. The WHO declared the pandemic in the first quarter of 2020 and they will decide when the global pandemic is over.

"And remember, the definition of a pandemic is a threat to every single person in the world."

 

No it fucking well isn't, shut up and go back to running the world's shitest dental clinic. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Elixir said:

Sounds like a slow pivot to save face.

Me considering Devi's major ethical issues, while spending some well-earned kunas in the sun later this year:

Spoiler

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by vikingTON

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Enjoy Butlins m8.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

WRK with every second post being themed around the hatred of Tories, with a hilarious Tory attitude post demeaning the job of a lollipop person. 

..actually ridiculing the Sage of Inverclyde and his assumed superiority over all humanity, but I can't expect you to get the nuance, especially as you're Concentrating on challenging a couple on here for a slice of good ol' virginton lovin'. Have some self respect.

[Elixir]

59 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im not getting the point about a massive ethical issue, everyone will be offered the vaccine, if they dont take it then they can’t complain if say Croatia says ‘no vaccine no entry’, its the same for yellow fever etc, its not an ethical issue. Im sure there will be a reasonable way around for people medically or otherwise unable to be vaccinated to get around it.

While it won't affect me as I'll happily take the vaccine, and it will do away with quarantine and testing nonsense in the the short to medium term, longer term I hope it's done away with once the virus settles into the background just like any other respiratory infection. It would prevent things like this being exploited further by weirdo Tony Blair types.

15 minutes ago, virginton said:

Good to see some positive indications from Linda Bould instead of sticking with the psycho clique. Meanwhile:

No it fucking well isn't, shut up and go back to running the world's shitest dental clinic. 

What was Linda saying?

[deegee]

Next Tuesday is going to be a massive statement on how the Scottish Government plan to either lead the narrative into the coming months or be lead be people’s dissatisfaction and disregard of NS stance. We’ve seen today, despite a slight increase in infection cases, that two of the chief stooges and doom- mongers, Devi and Linda are winding in their views and leaving that halfwit Leitch isolated and looking like a modern day “Comical Ali”.

If folk can get a haircut in Wales and there are defined target dates and a sense of forward planning & optimism for people and businesses  in England, NS will look ridiculous in the face of clear medical facts and numbers (of vaccinations and hospitalisations etc) if the government thinks letting 4 folk go for a walk outside is the definition of roadmap back to “greater normality”! And that 50 God- botherers can defy the virus in a church at any one time but a dozen folk can’t be trusted to sit in a cafe.

[Marshmallo]

11 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

7 hours ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

WRK with every second post being themed around the hatred of Tories, with a hilarious Tory attitude post demeaning the job of a lollipop person. 

..actually ridiculing the Sage of Inverclyde and his assumed superiority over all humanity, but I can't expect you to get the nuance, especially as you're Concentrating on challenging a couple on here for a slice of good ol' virginton lovin'. Have some self respect.

I'm particularly dense. Can you explain how suggesting he could be a lollipop man is "ridiculing" him?

[super_carson]

4 minutes ago, Elixir said:

What was Linda saying?

Breaking rank with her comments about normality by mid-June.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56378637

 

I wonder if there will be a change in tune from academics as more evidence regarding transmission occurs. 

[vikingTON]

17 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Enjoy Butlins m8.

Enjoy your Walter Mitty existence in 'San Francisco', you total loser.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

I'm particularly dense. Can you explain how suggesting he could be a lollipop man is "ridiculing" him?

Yes, you absolutely are. Crossing Patrol, as with cleaner, IT guy, and all the other lower-paid jobs listed by the acolytes today, are indeed vital to the functioning of their organisation. I speak as a pretty small cog in a pretty big machine myself. 

For someone who believes himself the intellectual superior of not just the entire political class, but also those paid as advisers to same, I feel it is a more likely level of involvement in whichever organisation than the COO role he obviously feels suited to. *

In small words, for those who are particularly dense - I'm slagging a keyboard warrior, not a lollipop man. 

* Bear in mind, this is the poster who brought us "Lone Behold" and "Question Mark Sign". An intellectual giant he's not. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

6 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Don't forget his anti- traveller racism which he refused to acknowledge when pointed out 

I'm assuming you can back this up? Seriously, I cannot recall this, and that's a pretty heavy accusation to lay. 

[Honest_Man#1]

8 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Yes, you absolutely are. Crossing Patrol, as with cleaner, IT guy, and all the other lower-paid jobs listed by the acolytes today, are indeed vital to the functioning of their organisation. I speak as a pretty small cog in a pretty big machine myself. 

For someone who believes himself the intellectual superior of not just the entire political class, but also those paid as advisers to same, I feel it is a more likely level of involvement in whichever organisation than the COO role he obviously feels suited to. *

In small words, for those who are particularly dense - I'm slagging a keyboard warrior, not a lollipop man. 

* Bear in mind, this is the poster who brought us "Lone Behold" and "Question Mark Sign". An intellectual giant he's not. 

That was a lot of waffling there, WhiteRoseTory. 

[Marshmallo]

14 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Yes, you absolutely are. Crossing Patrol, as with cleaner, IT guy, and all the other lower-paid jobs listed by the acolytes today, are indeed vital to the functioning of their organisation. I speak as a pretty small cog in a pretty big machine myself. 

For someone who believes himself the intellectual superior of not just the entire political class, but also those paid as advisers to same, I feel it is a more likely level of involvement in whichever organisation than the COO role he obviously feels suited to. *

In small words, for those who are particularly dense - I'm slagging a keyboard warrior, not a lollipop man. 

* Bear in mind, this is the poster who brought us "Lone Behold" and "Question Mark Sign". An intellectual giant he's not. 

In what sense is it a "slagging" for him if you see nothing wrong with being a lollipop man?

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Yes, you absolutely are. Crossing Patrol, as with cleaner, IT guy, and all the other lower-paid jobs listed by the acolytes today, are indeed vital to the functioning of their organisation. I speak as a pretty small cog in a pretty big machine myself. 

For someone who believes himself the intellectual superior of not just the entire political class, but also those paid as advisers to same, I feel it is a more likely level of involvement in whichever organisation than the COO role he obviously feels suited to. *

In small words, for those who are particularly dense - I'm slagging a keyboard warrior, not a lollipop man. 

* Bear in mind, this is the poster who brought us "Lone Behold" and "Question Mark Sign". An intellectual giant he's not. 

And if any other P and Ber would like to spend the Easter break living in the abandoned barn of a head of this braying, failed pub landlord then PM me. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

9 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

That was a lot of waffling there, WhiteRoseTory. 

The boy wanted an explanation, he got one.