Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[D.A.F.C]

1 hour ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Large minority is a daft turn of phrase. The only time it has any validity is when discussing sectarian singing participants at Ibrox.

It was only 45,000 fans doing it and the tannoy playing the music.

Nothing we can do 

[super_carson]

45 minutes ago, Paco said:

They’re actively speaking about vaccine passports and lateral-flow tests down South, and these will not go away on June 21st if indeed that date is met. Good old Boris.

A Scottish Government paper makes reference to ‘public health measures’, which admittedly is very vague, and we have people losing their mind.

It could mean social distancing forever more. It could mean perma-lockdown. More likely though it’s leaving open the possibility of masks staying in the short-term - already said by Vallance/Whitty - and for measures to come back in winter if necessary - already said by Whitty. Minimum pricing on alcohol is a public health measure. The smoking ban in public spaces is a public health measure. Vaccine passports and lateral-flow tests would be a public health measure.

The paper also says we can look forward to the general lifting of restrictions, and Covid will be over a serious public health issue. Those are the key points. I too wanted more from Sturgeon yesterday, the plan stopped at April with fairly vague detail on what that even looks like. We’re stuck between a lying PM who tells you what you want to hear and an ultra-cautious FM who doesn’t want to break a promise. It’s frustrating. But I still see no clear daylight between their approaches.

Hard to disagree with that, and I’ll admit maybe I overacted initially.  Still massively frustrating to not have some potential dates for when we may get back to some sort of normality like they have in England.  Although they may yet have the rug pulled out from underneath them, so it could be a case of managing expectations up here - always get the impression that Sturgeon prefers to under-promise and over-deliver, unlike Bojo who is very much the other way round.  

I guess we will have a better idea come mid March, but the constant kicking the can down the road doesn’t strike me as decisive leadership.  Decisions made about how we live the virus have to be made at some point. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by super_carson

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, Paco said:

They’re actively speaking about vaccine passports and lateral-flow tests down South, and these will not go away on June 21st if indeed that date is met. Good old Boris.

A Scottish Government paper makes reference to ‘public health measures’, which admittedly is very vague, and we have people losing their mind.

It could mean social distancing forever more. It could mean perma-lockdown. More likely though it’s leaving open the possibility of masks staying in the short-term - already said by Vallance/Whitty - and for measures to come back in winter if necessary - already said by Whitty. Minimum pricing on alcohol is a public health measure. The smoking ban in public spaces is a public health measure. Vaccine passports and lateral-flow tests would be a public health measure.

The paper also says we can look forward to the general lifting of restrictions, and Covid will be over a serious public health issue. Those are the key points. I too wanted more from Sturgeon yesterday, the plan stopped at April with fairly vague detail on what that even looks like. We’re stuck between a lying PM who tells you what you want to hear and an ultra-cautious FM who doesn’t want to break a promise. It’s frustrating. But I still see no clear daylight between their approaches.

Most of this is fair but I don't think it would have killed her to go beyond April 26 in terms of a vague plan to move down the tiers to eventual normality. Even a hint at what we might see at the end of July when everyone has had the vaccination.

She may well end up vindicated but I don't agree she's taking the 'treating us like adults' approach at all.

 

[madwullie]

Public health measures would include vaccine passports btw

Edit: just noticed @Paco already pointed this out

Edited February 24, 2021 by madwullie

[Paco]

Most of this is fair but I don't think it would have killed her to go beyond April 26 in terms of a vague plan to move down the tiers to eventual normality. Even a hint at what we might see at the end of July when everyone has had the vaccination.

I agree, I’d have liked to have heard more and am disappointed we didn’t. I didn’t catch what Ruth Davidson said but from what I’ve read it mostly seems fair to be honest, which is never a great sentence to be write. It was a very vague statement that didn’t commit to much at all.

I’d like to see the journalists really press Sturgeon on that today. But there’ll probably be some old fud from Ardrossan who hasn’t had a vaccine yet, or indeed maybe has since they’ve now resorted to complaints that people are getting vaccinated.

Sturgeon seems to have interpreted the ‘adult conversation’ as not lying to the public or giving false expectations. That’s certainly one of the aspects of it, but eventually so is saying how you see things playing out. She could plaster it in all sorts of disclaimers and maybe even use vague terms like ‘late summer’ rather than specific dates.

[ayrmad]

14 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Most of this is fair but I don't think it would have killed her to go beyond April 26 in terms of a vague plan to move down the tiers to eventual normality. Even a hint at what we might see at the end of July when everyone has had the vaccination.

She may well end up vindicated but I don't agree she's taking the 'treating us like adults' approach at all.

 

She's taking the "make sure it can't bite me in the arse in the slightest" approach, that's fine when you're one of the lucky ones that have trousered their full wage throughout this shitshow.

I haven't spoken to one business owner that is even remotely impressed by her approach throughout, the owner of The Garage gave the typical response of business owners last night on STV. 

[Whitburn Vale]

Welsh government ministers now criticising the UK government's approach to leaving lockdown.....,I.e too quick,too hasty,naming dates and dangerous to boot....

 

[Michael W]

Given where vaccine passports will be demanded from (businesses not wanting sued), hard to see a scenario in which they'll apply in England but not in Scotland or indeed the rest of the UK. I also don't see a more cautious SG refusing them whilst WM embraces them. Hopefully this idea is quickly filed in the bin where it belongs. 

Vague statements piss people off, so hardly a surprise Sturgeon has taken a kicking here. We're a year down the line now and still being fed drip by drip from our leaders.

Remember also Johnson's plan is indicitive and will almost certainly be changed at some point. It goes further than the 26th of April, which is welcome, but I don't think it'll be delivered on time. Sending the schools back in full with home lateral flow testing(!) looks like a giant error to me. Maybe I'm cynical, but unless there's a need to actually show the test before being allowed in, I imagine quite a lot will simply not bother. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Michael W

[DeeTillEhDeh]

She's taking the "make sure it can't bite me in the arse in the slightest" approach, that's fine when you're one of the lucky ones that have trousered their full wage throughout this shitshow.
I haven't spoken to one business owner that is even remotely impressed by her approach throughout, the owner of The Garage gave the typical response of business owners last night on STV. 

I understand what you are saying. It's been tough for a lot of people.

My own wife has been furloughed for 6 months this year and is unlikely ever to be back at her job - she works in Debenhams. Pupils have missed 3 months of work because of lockdowns - some more because of self-isolating. It's going to take a long time to recover from this - in economic terms and psychological.

Personally think Johnson is way too gung-ho, playing to the crowd, whilst Sturgeon is naturally very cautious - I think there needs to be a balance in between.

Hopefully with falling hospital and ICU admissions there will be a quicker opening up - I understand about giving people hope but equally I think we don't want to have expectations that may be unrealistic.

Johnson should have stuck to his data not dates position not meaningless populist pish. Picking 21 June was quite deliberate - midsummer - as the headline writers latched on to yesterday. He also knew that people would think these were "happen by" dates instead of the "will not happen before" dates they are.

The one thing I did pick up from yesterday is that the proposed dates could be brought forward and that reviews will be every 3 weeks (as opposed to 5 in England). It will also be interesting to see what the geographic tiers will be (England not doing this but England-wide) - should really be based on the measures I said around health board areas.

We'll just need to wait and see.

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I understand what you are saying. It's been tough for a lot of people.

My own wife has been furloughed for 6 months this year and is unlikely ever to be back at her job - she works in Debenhams. Pupils have missed 3 months of work because of lockdowns - some more because of self-isolating. It's going to take a long time to recover from this - in economic terms and psychological.

Personally think Johnson is way too gung-ho whilst Sturgeon is naturally very cautious - I think there needs to be a balance in between.

Hopefully with falling hospital and ICU admissions there will be a quicker opening up - I understand about giving people hope but equally I think we don't want to have expectations that may be unrealistic.

Johnson should have stuck to his data not dates position not meaningless populist pish.

The one thing I did pick up from yesterday is that the proposed dates could be brought forward and that reviews will be every 3 weeks (as opposed to 5 in England). It will also be interesting to see what the geographic tiers will be (England not doing this but England-wide) - should really be based on the measures I said around health board areas.

We'll just need to wait and see.

Her approach was too woolly given Bojo's announcement the previous day, whilst most businesses won't need months of advance notice for opening the owners need a wee bit of light at the end of the tunnel, she's treating them like they're unable to handle nuance, she's wrong. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ayrmad

[SANTAN]

49 minutes ago, Paco said:

They’re actively speaking about vaccine passports and lateral-flow tests down South, and these will not go away on June 21st if indeed that date is met. Good old Boris.

A Scottish Government paper makes reference to ‘public health measures’, which admittedly is very vague, and we have people losing their mind.

It could mean social distancing forever more. It could mean perma-lockdown. More likely though it’s leaving open the possibility of masks staying in the short-term - already said by Vallance/Whitty - and for measures to come back in winter if necessary - already said by Whitty. Minimum pricing on alcohol is a public health measure. The smoking ban in public spaces is a public health measure. Vaccine passports and lateral-flow tests would be a public health measure.

The paper also says we can look forward to the general lifting of restrictions, and Covid will be over a serious public health issue. Those are the key points. I too wanted more from Sturgeon yesterday, the plan stopped at April with fairly vague detail on what that even looks like. We’re stuck between a lying PM who tells you what you want to hear and an ultra-cautious FM who doesn’t want to break a promise. It’s frustrating. But I still see no clear daylight between their approaches.

Ahahahah .....

Some of you are so far gone. What an incredibly stupid, sycophant type of post. 

You are currently aware of the scandal engulfing the SG right now yeah? 

Saint Nic though...

[super_carson]

9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The one thing I did pick up from yesterday is that the proposed dates could be brought forward and that reviews will be every 3 weeks (as opposed to 5 in England). It will also be interesting to see what the geographic tiers will be (England not doing this but England-wide) - should really be based on the measures I said around health board areas.

Hard to disagree with that either to be honest, given they pool resources and across multiple authorities.  That said, I can't imagine those in East Lothian will be too happy at being influenced by what happens in West Lothian and, to a lesser extend Edinburgh.  Although given we've shat the bed recently and have a rising number of infections maybe I shouldn't be too critical of West Lothian.

I did think if they might have done the central belt as one geographic area, give the relative ease at which you could travel between the major towns. They used that when the tiers were initially set (and subsequently ignored). Would be very crap for those in the east to not have as much freedom thanks to the plague pits in the west though. 

[madwullie]

So no restrictions in England after the 21st of June has been promised, yet they're also planning a vaccine passport, which is itself a restriction, and by definition it means those without one will be restricted in what they can do. Seems legit.

But woop woop Boris said what we want to hear. 

[Honest_Man#1]

38 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Most of this is fair but I don't think it would have killed her to go beyond April 26 in terms of a vague plan to move down the tiers to eventual normality. Even a hint at what we might see at the end of July when everyone has had the vaccination.

She may well end up vindicated but I don't agree she's taking the 'treating us like adults' approach at all.

 

The key for me is in a few weeks time when she breaks down the new tier system. One of the biggest frustrations from yesterday was that we were told that it’s a couple more months of lockdown-lite, but then everyone will go into tier 3 (but a modified version of tier 3, as the previous version would look well over the top if data continues the way it’s going).

The main issue I have with it is that the tier system was never a route to normality, literally the best we could get was tier 0 and that was well off normality, so the updated tiers need to have an end point that is genuine normality.

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, madwullie said:

So no restrictions in England after the 21st of June has been promised, yet they're also planning a vaccine passport, which is itself a restriction, and by definition it means those without one will be restricted in what they can do. Seems legit.

But woop woop Boris said what we want to hear. 

Really?

[Jambomo]

1 hour ago, ayrmad said:

Her approach was too wooly given Bojo's announcement the previous day, whilst most businesses won't need months of advance notice for opening the owners need a wee bit of light at the end of the tunnel, she's treating them like they're unable to handle nuance, she's wrong. 

I’m not sure she is wrong tbh. I don’t think that the public have been able to handle nuance well at all in general - the clamour to take Boris’ dates as firm opening dates kind of shows that. Business owners are varied members of the public like anyone else, some sensible, some are not so sensible.

We are currently experiencing a slowdown in vaccinations because of supply issues - it’s things like this that make giving firm dates a nightmare. Things happen. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Jambomo

[Donathan]

So no restrictions in England after the 21st of June has been promised, yet they're also planning a vaccine passport, which is itself a restriction, and by definition it means those without one will be restricted in what they can do. [emoji848] Seems legit.
But woop woop Boris said what we want to hear. 

“No restrictions on social contact” was a very carefully chosen phrase IMO. It doesn’t mean to restrictions at all. Just that you can meet up with whoever you like with no limit on group size.

[madwullie]

Just now, Donathan said:

“No restrictions on social contact” was a very carefully chosen phrase IMO. It doesn’t mean to restrictions at all. Just that you can meet up with whoever you like with no limit on group size.

Was it that specific? Fair enough, I stand corrected. I didn't actually watch it just read the pant creaming on here. 

[Dons_1988]

13 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Ahahahah .....

Some of you are so far gone. What an incredibly stupid, sycophant type of post. 

You are currently aware of the scandal engulfing the SG right now yeah? 

Saint Nic though...

Jesus man, your posts are so boring. Can you not take this shite to the Politics forum.

[Todd_is_God]

12 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I’m not sure she is wrong tbh. I don’t think that the public have been able to handle nuance well at all in general - the clamour to take Boris’ dates as firm opening dates kind of shows that. Business owners are varied members of the public like anyone else, some sensible, some are not so sensible.

We are currently justly experiencing a slowdown in vaccinations because of supply issues - it’s things like this that make giving firm dates a nightmare. Things happen. 

"Supply issues" along with the following sentence implies that the reduction in recent supply was unexpected.

That simply isn't true.

In any case, NS portrayed yesterday as the revealing of a "data not dates" led plan which would reveal the order of priority for re-opening things / lifting restrictions.

Instead we got an 8 week plan (littered with dates) which loosely mentioned a few things re-opening, and firing everyone in to level three by the last week in April. Oh, and if you want to know what level three actually looks like, or anything that we might do after April, tune in again in three weeks.

It was absolutely dreadful.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Todd_is_God