Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

Just now, welshbairn said:

We should have started pumping people full of hydroxychloroquine and bleach instead of fannying about testing stuff to see if it brings a net benefit. 

Because bleach and 'already medically tested anti-inflammatory drugs' are exactly the same thing champ.

[Moomintroll]

27 minutes ago, virginton said:

Sit down and shut up, you Tory voting clown.

You were saying? I am atoning for my past mistakes.

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Perkin Flump
Donaldsons Solicitors

[PWL]

Telling a medical professional how to treat patients is a punchy call - even for this thread. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by PWL

[Sergeant Wilson]

25 minutes ago, Perkin Flump said:

You were saying? I am atoning for my past mistakes.

 

I'm going to pester fūck out of Peter Southwood.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Sergeant Wilson

[Moomintroll]

Just now, Sergeant Wilson said:

I'm going to pester fūck out of Peter Southwood.

Batter in, fyi he is a Liverpool fan so he is particularly grumpy at the moment. PS Don't do that.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, Perkin Flump said:

Batter in, fyi he is a Liverpool fan so he is particularly grumpy at the moment. PS Don't do that.

I'll wait until the Man U game starts.

[Cyclizine]

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

Because bleach and 'already medically tested anti-inflammatory drugs' are exactly the same thing champ.

As I said, just because drugs may work in theory does not mean they will work as expected in practice.  Aspirin, dexamethasone, colchicine, infliximab, hydroxycloroquine, paracetamol: all anti-inflammatories, all with different mechanisms of action and effects.

Inflammation isn't just one entity either, it's a combination of thousands of different physiological pathways, only a small number of which we fully understand.  It's usually a protective and beneficial response to illness, it's uncontrolled, pathological inflammation that is the problem*.  Anti-inflammatories aren't a homogenous class of drug, they have a myriad of effects caused by a myriad of different (and often not understood) pathways.

In your example above, there really isn't a difference between using hydroxycholoroquine (an "already medically tested anti-inflammatory drug") and bleach in Covid. They are both more likely to kill you than benefit you.

*gross oversimplification here, but point still stands

Edited January 24, 2021 by Cyclizine

[Melanius Mullarkey]

9 minutes ago, PWL said:

Telling a medical professional how to treat patients is a punchy call - even for this thread. 

It’s ok. He’s got Google to hand. Piece of piss.

[Billy Jean King]

I see the UKG have extended the emergency powers that enable LAs to maintain the lockdown measures on the QT it's been revealed today. Next review not until mid July. That coupled with Hancock's words today (long, long, long way from a position of being able to even consider looking at lifting restrictions were his exact words) suggests this round of measures are here for the long haul.

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

As I said, just because drugs may work in theory does not mean they will work as expected in practice.  

And what is the most efficient way of determining how these drugs work in practice, right now? It is not 'wait and see for a randomised trial to be completed and the results written up'. While that provides the most authoritative evidence, it does nothing to address the actual pandemic ripping through your population in the meantime. 

Quote

Anti-inflammatories aren't a homogenous class of drug, they have a myriad of effects caused by a myriad of different (and often not understood) pathways.

I am referring specifically to the dexamethasone treatment that has already been shown to benefit critical patients though. I'm not talking about an ibuprofen or countless other completely different products, so this is a straw man argument. 

Having already established that a specific anti-inflammatory improves outcomes in critical patients, they should be firing that out to vulnerable groups on testing positive and asking questions about the overall impact of that treatment later. 

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

Unsure why our governments are not publicising AZ delays as they have no problem getting official word out in Europe.  Note AZ has not even yet been approved by the EU yet they get more official news.

Belgium will receive only 650,000 doses of the new AstraZeneca vaccine in the first quarter of the year, instead of the 1.5 million doses contracted for, federal health minister Frank Vandenbroucke has confirmed.

That’s clearly the new Astra Zeneca vaccine, rather than the OXFORD#TeamGB Astra Zeneca one

[madwullie]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

We’re doing care homes first, right?

You do realise that most over 80s live outside care homes don't you? 

[Scosha]

9 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

I see the UKG have extended the emergency powers that enable LAs to maintain the lockdown measures on the QT it's been revealed today. Next review not until mid July. That coupled with Hancock's words today (long, long, long way from a position of being able to even consider looking at lifting restrictions were his exact words) suggests this round of measures are here for the long haul.

Riots incoming in a few weeks/couple months if we’re all stuck inside having our lives restricted whilst hospital and death numbers are low. 

[NotThePars]

The gotcha of “would you want to live under an authoritarian regime like China’s???” kinda loses its lustre when the people of Wuhan spent the summer going to pool parties getting tanked up while we got a tenner off Nandos. Both state’s media spent equal amounts of effort sucking off the people responsible as well. [emoji24]

[s_dog]

45 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

The vaccine is stored at regional centres, usually big hospitals. Once thawed the vaccine is stable for several days, so enough time to distribute it to local centres. It's Raigmore where the central store is in Highland.

This is the issue with the Pfizer vaccine, when delivered from Pfizer it is stored firstly in England (Wales has a specialist ultra-low temperature storage facility to keep their share of the vaccine long term - up to 6 months, but neither Scotland or Northern Ireland have one) and from our available allocation, we order quantities to be distributed amongst our main regional centres for immediate use (as it has been for patients, NHS & frontline care staff), or then stored to be sent onto vaccination centres in smaller numbers.

It doesn't matter if there's 200,000 doses sitting in the main regional NHS centres, they can only deliver enough of that to the various vaccination centres that they can use within 5 days.  Unless they are one of the large centres that have their own ultra-low temp freezers. There is also a time-limit on the storage and movement of the Pfizer vaccine once it's been broken down from the original packaging, so the clock is ticking as soon as it leaves the long term storage facilities.

[gav-ffc]

[101]

1 minute ago, gav-ffc said:

So half a million by the end of the month looks likely.

A lot of questions on where the 400,000 extra doses have gone. 

[101]

well this is good.

 

 

[welshbairn]

19 minutes ago, s_dog said:

This is the issue with the Pfizer vaccine, when delivered from Pfizer it is stored firstly in England (Wales has a specialist ultra-low temperature storage facility to keep their share of the vaccine long term - up to 6 months, but neither Scotland or Northern Ireland have one) and from our available allocation, we order quantities to be distributed amongst our main regional centres for immediate use (as it has been for patients, NHS & frontline care staff), or then stored to be sent onto vaccination centres in smaller numbers.

It doesn't matter if there's 200,000 doses sitting in the main regional NHS centres, they can only deliver enough of that to the various vaccination centres that they can use within 5 days.  Unless they are one of the large centres that have their own ultra-low temp freezers. There is also a time-limit on the storage and movement of the Pfizer vaccine once it's been broken down from the original packaging, so the clock is ticking as soon as it leaves the long term storage facilities.

I'm pretty sure it was announced that Scotland were getting 20-25 ultra low temperature freezers like these ones. Each has room for 86,000 doses.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/national-news/18923983.first-pictures-released-specialist-covid-19-vaccine-freezers-uk/

Edited January 24, 2021 by welshbairn

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, 101 said:

So half a million by the end of the month looks likely.

A lot of questions on where the 400,000 extra doses have gone. 

34.8k per day now required to hit the 1.1m by mid-Feb.

Tick tock...