Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[welshbairn]

15 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Would it not be an idea to use massive distribution companies like Amazon to roll out vaccine supply?

It’s happening in America and I’m sure companies over here could help out. How is it getting distributed at the moment?

You scratch our back and we'll scratch yours.

 

[bendan]

9 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Easy when you weld people into their houses.

It's amazing how these confirmation-bias interpretations become established facts.

[craigkillie]

Wonder if this shambles from the SG will have any impact on the election this year

They could have vaccinated nobody and would still win.

[Marshmallo]

Wee Nipola Sturkrankie saying we will give all of the top 4 most vulnerable groups their first dose by mid February.

How many people would that be?

[Wee Bully]

Wee Nipola Sturkrankie saying we will give all of the top 4 most vulnerable groups their first dose by mid February.
How many people would that be?

Cringe

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

Off you pop then.

[Todd_is_God]

20 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

all of the top 4 most vulnerable groups their first dose by mid February.

How many people would that be?

1.1m, of which we have 755k to go.

Mid February is 22 days away. So we need to do 34.3k each day from today, with that number rising each day we don't do 34.3k.

[Steven W]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

1.1m, of which we have 755k to go.

Mid February is 22 days away. So we need to do 34.3k each day from today, with that number rising each day we don't do 34.3k.

Aye, but you're no factoring in the blue envelopes.

[PWL]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

1.1m, of which we have 755k to go.

Mid February is 22 days away. So we need to do 34.3k each day from today, with that number rising each day we don't do 34.3k.

If the current rate is 22-25 on mainly GP + Louisa Jordan and the bigger vaccination hubs are soft opening now for roll out the 1st then I think that's certainly achievable.  

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, PWL said:

If the current rate is 22-25 on mainly GP + Louisa Jordan and the bigger vaccination hubs are soft opening now for roll out the 1st then I think that's certainly achievable.  

Of course it's achievable, but it won't take too many 22.5k days like Saturday before it becomes much less achievable.

Even if we potter along at 25k until Wednesday, the required rate will have jumped up to 38.5k per day.

These hubs should already be open.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[101]

2 hours ago, Steven W said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55781951

Blue envelopes. Now we're ramping up!!

If the letters doesn't have the date, time and place of your vaccination on it I will implode.

f**k this phone up Sandra who will sort you out with a slot, can't do Wednesday afternoon because that's when you always get your messages as don't worry pet we will sort you out with another slot. No mucking about miss your slot for any reason other than you have snuffed it = 50 years hard labour.

[101]

53 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You scratch our back and we'll scratch yours.

 

f**k that, basically asking to get another competitive advantage by making sure their workforce don't come down with anything. Back of the queue for you.

Or let you workers unionise and we will think about it.

[Shadow Play]

10 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

That’s not the same location both photographs were taken 

On a more serious note I’d imagine the authorities in Wuhan were ruthless in enforcing Covid restrictions.  I don’t think the authorities there would be like they are in this country where it’s simply accepted someone not wearing a mask just because they say they are exempt / unable to wear a mask or flash a card printed off the internet saying they are exempt.  

 

[Billy Jean King]

Wonder if this shambles from the SG will have any impact on the election this year

What shambles.

NS just on Marr saying they are bang on target to have the first 4 groups identified vaccinated by March as stated with the target within that of 14 Feb also on schedule.

[Billy Jean King]

Wee Nipola Sturkrankie saying we will give all of the top 4 most vulnerable groups their first dose by mid February.
How many people would that be?

FFS mate grow up !

That was the stated target all along. She states again they are bang on schedule yet that doesn't suit your primary school level agenda.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Billy Jean King said:

What shambles.

The entire country has been shut down and hundreds are dying from a virus every week with no defined plan on when this is likely to change.

[Billy Jean King]

The entire country has been shut down and hundreds are dying from a virus every week with no defined plan on when this is likely to change.

Just like 99% of the rest of the world. Grow up ffs !

[Cyclizine]

10 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

 I'm certain they are choosing to stretch the definition of ventilation. Rather than your question are there situations when you can be on a ventilator but not in ICU there are in fact many examples of patients being in ICU but not on a ventilator. 

Even in simplistic terms of the 4076 UK patients in ICU with Covid today there will be quite a number who have improved enough to come off ventilation and be awaiting discharge to a ward. Don't get me wrong the 4000+ patients in ICU is an awful figure but at best it's simplistic journalism to say they are all on ventilators and at worst it's deliberately sensationalist. In other words typical UK mainstream journalism.

Mechanical ventilation means using a machine to breathe for the patient. This can be done in a number of ways. What most people would call ventilation is what we would call invasive ventilation: a tube in someone's windpipe either through the mouth/nose or a hole in the neck. Invasive ventilation can be used to fully take over someone's breathing (mandatory ventilation) or to help/support their own attempts at breathing (assisted ventilation)

Other types of ventilation would be classed as non-invasive. This would include face masks and hoods, often called NIV. These methods cannot (or perhaps should not in normal circumstances) be used to fully take over someone's breathing, but are used to assist breathing. Options like CPAP and high-flow oxygen are not types of ventilation as they don't assist with breathing, they are just a way of providing more oxygen.

Invasive ventilation is only done (in ideal circumstances) in the intensive care unit. Non-invasive ventilation, CPAP and high-flow oxygen can and is often done in medical wards. This is one of the changes we've seen in the first wave - where the evidence from Italy was that we should rapidly intubate and invasively ventilate patients, whereas we now see that many can be managed with non-invasive techniques.

There will be some patients who are invasively ventilated that are rapidly weaned and come off ventilation. However, for the majority, this is a very slow process. This is the backlog we see in ICU that patients take a long time to get better. ICU care is also not just about ventilation. Very sick patients develop muliple-organ dysfunction and often need advanced support for blood pressure, kidneys and other organs, even if their lungs are better. Since we're managing more patients on the wards, the patients that get admitted to ICU are by definition sicker, as they're often the ones that fail ward management and are a self-selected group.

[Distant Doonhamer]

31 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Mechanical ventilation means using a machine to breathe for the patient. This can be done in a number of ways. What most people would call ventilation is what we would call invasive ventilation: a tube in someone's windpipe either through the mouth/nose or a hole in the neck. Invasive ventilation can be used to fully take over someone's breathing (mandatory ventilation) or to help/support their own attempts at breathing (assisted ventilation)

Other types of ventilation would be classed as non-invasive. This would include face masks and hoods, often called NIV. These methods cannot (or perhaps should not in normal circumstances) be used to fully take over someone's breathing, but are used to assist breathing. Options like CPAP and high-flow oxygen are not types of ventilation as they don't assist with breathing, they are just a way of providing more oxygen.

Invasive ventilation is only done (in ideal circumstances) in the intensive care unit. Non-invasive ventilation, CPAP and high-flow oxygen can and is often done in medical wards. This is one of the changes we've seen in the first wave - where the evidence from Italy was that we should rapidly intubate and invasively ventilate patients, whereas we now see that many can be managed with non-invasive techniques.

There will be some patients who are invasively ventilated that are rapidly weaned and come off ventilation. However, for the majority, this is a very slow process. This is the backlog we see in ICU that patients take a long time to get better. ICU care is also not just about ventilation. Very sick patients develop muliple-organ dysfunction and often need advanced support for blood pressure, kidneys and other organs, even if their lungs are better. Since we're managing more patients on the wards, the patients that get admitted to ICU are by definition sicker, as they're often the ones that fail ward management and are a self-selected group.

Brilliant summary. Thanks.

If I was still working which thankfully I'm not I could probably claim a CME credit for the update. Even allowing for the very different pressures I'd still maintain that the BBC article I quoted is lazy journalism. 

Keep safe in these frankly bloody awful times.

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer

[Guest TheJTS98]

32 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

That’s not the same location both photographs were taken 

On a more serious note I’d imagine the authorities in Wuhan were ruthless in enforcing Covid restrictions.  I don’t think the authorities there would be like they are in this country where it’s simply accepted someone not wearing a mask just because they say they are exempt / unable to wear a mask or flash a card printed off the internet saying they are exempt.  

 

On occasion the Chinese government were sealing people's homes to stop them leaving.

In the UK there was genuine complaining along the lines of 'What's the harm in me playing golf?', 'I need to go walking outside for my mental health', and 'Why shouldn't I go to the shops with my wife?'.

These are issues with varying degrees of validity. Of course it's better for the mind if people can get outside. But there's no sense in looking at Wuhan and wishing for what they've got unless you would genuinely be willing to put up with what they had to to get there.

The UK government simply could not do what was done in China. No Western government could. Neither could most Asian ones. So there's no point in comparing. Unless you'd like to live under an authoritarian regime.