Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I've said this before but it is not, and should not, be a case of making comparisons with England as if it is simply a case of being better than them.  That's lazy, simplistic and represents everything that is wrong with the Nationalist cause - and I say that as a Nationalist.  
I don't care what is happening in England, I'm not English and I don't live there.  They are doing things in a different way, have different demographics, infrastructure etc. 
 I want to know that the SG are doing all that they can to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.  I get why we are doing care homes first, and I get that this can take more time.  But if there is enough of the vaccine to simultaneously vaccinate other groups while the care home are worked through then that should happen - dragging our feet while the rest of the population suffer is not acceptable.  This is the acid test for the Scottish Government now.  Lockdown can be painted as a tough decision made by strong leadership, but that's far easier when it's the only option open to you.  Now we have a vaccine that - to whatever extent - can limit the loss of life and accelerate an end to this never-ending nightmare, it is the responsibility of government to do deliver that vaccine as quickly and as efficiently as possible and we should be demanding this of our government.  

I don't actually disagree with what you are saying - I personally don't like the comparisons with England (or anywhere else for that matter) - beit tests , infection rates, deaths, vaccine rates or anything else.

They've set the targets for vaccination and they now have to be met. I think it's right to keep up appropriate pressure to ensure targets are met but equally beating up the Scottish Government on the basis of day-to-day vaccination rates is stupid.

First target is a week away - if they don't make that the questions need to be asked. If they do make that then appropriate pressure needs to be kept up to get the next target and so on.

[vikingTON]

38 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I have looked far and wide and yet to find a target that was set as a million that wasn't subject to vaccine availability and delivery schedules.
 

Erm, all vaccination targets are subject to availability and delivery schedules. They still are now. 

That Freeman specifically mentioned those caveats in the statement is irrelevant then. 

Quote

 

Newspaper headlines (as in this one from that day's Courier) don't actually match up to the actualite of their articles.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1745509/covid-vaccine-1m-scots-to-get-jab-by-end-of-january-as-drive-for-2000-medical-staff-begins/

 

I'm sure the SG rushed out a statement then to instantly correct the media about its gross misrepresentation of what it would deliver by the end of January. 

What's that? They did nothing of the sort because they were happy to get big licks for an optimistic 'nearly a fifth of us will be vaccinated soon, stick to the rools for noo!' message? Well when you fall hideously short of that mark, you have no cause to greet about the media coverage afterwards. The SG's narrative in November was not warped by anyone or anything: that was what it wanted to push at that time and so that is what they're going to be judged on now as well. 

And that's before we even deal with the 900k doses that they tried to shift the goalposts with after the New Year, of which they'll be wanting a parade for administering half by the end of this month. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by vikingTON

[welshbairn]

42 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

 

 

I don't actually disagree with what you are saying - I personally don't like the comparisons with England (or anywhere else for that matter) - beit tests , infection rates, deaths, vaccine rates or anything else.

They've set the targets for vaccination and they now have to be met. I think it's right to keep up appropriate pressure to ensure targets are met but equally beating up the Scottish Government on the basis of day-to-day vaccination rates is stupid.

First target is a week away - if they don't make that the questions need to be asked. If they do make that then appropriate pressure needs to be kept up to get the next target and so on.


 

 

I'll be judging them by how many vaccines they have in storage when the next deliveries arrive, and how quickly the mass vaccination centres get going when we have sufficient supplies to keep them busy. Also on getting the slower job of getting care homes, the over eighties and housebound out of the way before supplies ramp up. Targets don't matter, if they meet them with vaccine supplies to spare they've fucked up.

Edited January 23, 2021 by welshbairn

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm sure the SG rushed out a statement then to instantly correct the media about its gross misrepresentation of what it would deliver by the end of January. 
What's that? They did nothing of the sort because they were happy to get big licks for an optimistic 'nearly a fifth of us will be vaccinated soon, stick to the rools for noo!' message? Well when you fall hideously short of that mark, you have no cause to greet about the media coverage afterwards. The SG's narrative in November was not warped by anyone or anything: that was what it wanted to push at that time and so that is what they're going to be judged on now as well. 
And that's before we even deal with the 900k doses that they tried to shift the goalposts with after the New Year, of which they'll be wanting a parade for administering half by the end of this month. 

I don't want or expect a parade.

I expect them to be pushed to meet the next target.

[10menwent2mow]

I've said this before but it is not, and should not, be a case of making comparisons with England as if it is simply a case of being better than them.  That's lazy, simplistic and represents everything that is wrong with the Nationalist cause - and I say that as a Nationalist.  
I don't care what is happening in England, I'm not English and I don't live there.  They are doing things in a different way, have different demographics, infrastructure etc. 
 I want to know that the SG are doing all that they can to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.  I get why we are doing care homes first, and I get that this can take more time.  But if there is enough of the vaccine to simultaneously vaccinate other groups while the care home are worked through then that should happen - dragging our feet while the rest of the population suffer is not acceptable.  This is the acid test for the Scottish Government now.  Lockdown can be painted as a tough decision made by strong leadership, but that's far easier when it's the only option open to you.  Now we have a vaccine that - to whatever extent - can limit the loss of life and accelerate an end to this never-ending nightmare, it is the responsibility of government to do deliver that vaccine as quickly and as efficiently as possible and we should be demanding this of our government.  

The issue with the priority list is that the SG don't seem to want to move on until they have absolutely everyone in a group done.

I understand the need for a priority list but get the fucking thing in as many arms as possible, as quickly as possible. If 75% of one group are done, start with the next, the other 25% can be caught up later.

[strichener]

3 hours ago, 101 said:

Beyond the setting up and logistics of storing the vaccines what is the SGs role? 

I would suggest you read Freeman's speech to parliament where she emphatically stated that what was needed was a National Plan.

Quote

This is a national vaccination programme that sets out clearly the parameters within which our national health service boards will lead local delivery. Nationally, we will set out the policy direction and the delivery framework, accompanied by guidance and information for those at the front line. We will develop and deploy a national workforce model; provide national training; undertake procurement and logistics work; provide national information and advice; create tools to record data about vaccinations, so that they are on people’s medical records; and, from phase 2, provide a national booking service.

 

[craigkillie]

The issue with the priority list is that the SG don't seem to want to move on until they have absolutely everyone in a group done.

I understand the need for a priority list but get the fucking thing in as many arms as possible, as quickly as possible. If 75% of one group are done, start with the next, the other 25% can be caught up later.

They are already vaccinating group 2. Maybe not as fast as they should be based on the numbers, but they have started nonetheless.

[Lurkst]

21 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

They are already vaccinating group 2. Maybe not as fast as they should be based on the numbers, but they have started nonetheless.

 

Yep, both my closest group 2 relatives were vaccinated this week.

 

[paranoid android]

My Ma got her first Covid vaccination the day.

No ill effects, but she seems to have developed a sudden interest in acquiring a number of Microsoft products. 

[welshbairn]

Thought I'd be in group 6 but seems I've been bumped up with all those on the shielded list to a first jag mid February. Text message from SG last week.

[Binos]

16 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Yep, both my closest group 2 relatives were vaccinated this week.

 

No no no

It's all wrong. The media have got wind some folk are happy their elderly relo's are being vaccinated and are punting the 'it won't work anyway cause of our delayed second vaccinated' story

Edited January 23, 2021 by Binos

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Glen Minter can even manage to be the biggest roaster on this thread.

[Distant Doonhamer]

Yet more shite from the BBC with their "more than 4000 Covid patients on ventilators" headline. 

There are just over 4000 patients in ICU in the UK with Covid. Not all patients in ICU are on ventilators. The usual lazy journalism.

[welshbairn]

20 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Glen Minter can even manage to be the biggest roaster on this thread.

That's a target than even Hancock would back away from given the tightness of the field.

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Yet more shite from the BBC with their "more than 4000 Covid patients on ventilators" headline. 

There are just over 4000 patients in ICU in the UK with Covid. Not all patients in ICU are on ventilators. The usual lazy journalism.

I don’t dispute what you say.  I’m not a doctor and know nothing about ICU or ventilation.

are there situations where you can be on a ventilator and not in ICU?

are they stretching the definition of ventilation?  I understand there are different types of breathing assistance?

it sounds suspicious and a bit like shite journalism.

 

[Thereisalight..]

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

[Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach]

1 minute ago, Thereisalight.. said:

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

It's amazing the number of people who scoff at 'that Devi Sridhar woman's Covid zero nonsense' also want what a covid zero policy has achieved 

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, Thereisalight.. said:

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

News recently from China is all about locking places down and building quarantined camps to house cases in.

It can’t be all perfect over there.

[Distant Doonhamer]

9 minutes ago, Left Back said:

I don’t dispute what you say.  I’m not a doctor and know nothing about ICU or ventilation.

are there situations where you can be on a ventilator and not in ICU?

are they stretching the definition of ventilation?  I understand there are different types of breathing assistance?

it sounds suspicious and a bit like shite journalism.

 

 I'm certain they are choosing to stretch the definition of ventilation. Rather than your question are there situations when you can be on a ventilator but not in ICU there are in fact many examples of patients being in ICU but not on a ventilator. 

Even in simplistic terms of the 4076 UK patients in ICU with Covid today there will be quite a number who have improved enough to come off ventilation and be awaiting discharge to a ward. Don't get me wrong the 4000+ patients in ICU is an awful figure but at best it's simplistic journalism to say they are all on ventilators and at worst it's deliberately sensationalist. In other words typical UK mainstream journalism.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer

[DeeTillEhDeh]

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

Easy when you weld people into their houses.