Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Yflab said:

Not according to this Greenock butcher.

https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/14018760.buckfast-flavoured-sausages-popular-with-inverclyde-butcherrsquos-customers/

El Dorado, El Dorado,Wine, Wine, Wine.

Four Crown, Four Crown, far (for) too dear !!

We're awe goin tae Fine Fare, You get the cheapest Wine there, na,na.na,na, na,na,na,na.

[Dunning1874]

Regarding the 'back to normal' and environmental discussions of a few hours/20 pages ago, any notion that the necessary decisions required to deal with climate change overlap with or justify an extension of the current restrictions on individual freedoms can get in the bin. Stopping people being able to live as they did in 2019 in terms of mixing socially, recreation and even foreign travel (outwith the obscenely rich who fly constantly) isn't what's needed to address climate change and wouldn't be a remotely acceptable way for a government to act.

In the extremely unlikely event that governments take the action needed to stop the planet turning into a ball of fire over the next few decades there will be significant changes to our lives with the global economy necessarily being restructured, but targeting individual lifestyles isn't going to achieve anything. Only regulations and laws that drastically overhaul entire industries and governmental practices are going to make a difference.

There is a genuine Covid-related point in discussions of environmental policy, but focusing exclusively on wet markets and regulation of them misses the point. While it's not what happened in this thread, there's an undeniable undercurrent in general media discussion of 'if those Asians were more responsible like us this would never have happened, it's all their fault' and we just need them to adopt Western farming practices and regulations. While there are specific issues with China, this isn't remotely the case.

We know that Covid originated in bats and found itself in a wet market. We have no idea it actually transferred to humans through someone eating a bat though. It could just have easily been bats passing the disease to another animal which humans consumed.  Wild bats passing overhead transmitting to farmed pigs was how the Nipah virus infected humans rather than any kind of wet market, so while there are obviously specific issues with wet markets, wild animals and a conversation to be had about meat consumption in general, the argument that this is down to a specific type of meat consumption or practice doesn't stand up when it's happened with farmed animals as well.

There's a wild bat population in daily contact with humans in Wuhan because of deforestation and their natural habitat disappearing. Same as the wild bats who appeared over the pig farms in Malaysia bringing Nipah, same as the wild bats bringing Ebola in Guinea, same with SARS before it, MERS was also passed to camels by migrating bats passing overhead. When you remove bats' natural habitat the stress it places on them weakens them and makes them more susceptible to shedding a virus. Put that in tandem with humans being close to their habitat in cleared forest areas and some bat populations being forced to look for new habitats and travel over a wide area coming into contact with humans, you're asking for zoonotic spillover.

That's where the environment ànd pandemics cross over and that's the recipe for different coronaviruses making the leap again. If you're looking for an obvious environmental change out this, immediately halting deforestation, particularly in SE Asia, and indeed reforestation of many of these areas is not only going to have an environmental benefit by itself but will help prevent further pandemics again.

Drastic action like that against specific industries to prevent ever getting to this stage has to be a better policy both environmentally and economically than letting another virus spill over and having to shut every other sector of the economy at once to stop the spread. However that would require an acknowledgement that these things are entirely in every government's control as Western governments could act on companies operating in their countries driving and profiting from deforestation, with much of that being driven by demand for palm and beef, rather than it all being China's fault.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Dunning1874

[s_dog]

57 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That utter dick of a man Ross allowed free reign on BBC every single day to make random claims about vaccination targets being missed, without his allegations being properly scrutinised. 

Didn't see it nor the response, but apparently the misinformation by the Tories that the Scot Gov are sitting on supplies and failing to get them rolled-out to where needed was answered by STV yesterday, but the BBC are still happy to let Ross continue to pursue it. In an ideal world all the politicians would be working together to try and best respond to this crisis, and yes there does need to be scrutiny of decisions that are made. But this petty & continual criticising and questioning of anything & everything the Scot Gov does by the Tories in particular, especially in relation to vaccinations borders on undermining their actions. It's not like there is any political or health benefit to the Scot Gov sitting on supplies, does anyone honestly believe they'd do that to try and score some cheap political point to the UK Gov, particularly as their approval ratings are so high and there's no need for it even in the pathetic political minds of some people.

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Do you think that everyone should have to stay at home till everyone has been vaccinated, out of fairness? If vaccination allows travel to open up I'm all in favour, even if some of us have to wait a bit longer.

I think if Holiday companies, Restaurant chains, Pub chains, Concert organisers etc, etc, take the same attitude, then people "excluded" might not exactly be ecstatic about it..........

"Civil unrest" mark 2

[HibsFan]

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

[s_dog]

59 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't know about England, but the Scottish government's current plan would see everyone in all vulnerable categories (right down to over 50s) given both doses by the end of May.

Does it state anywhere that it's for both doses? Because the numbers for being vaccinated by for example, over 70's by mid-Feb definitely do not include two doses. There are lots of NHS staff & now social care staff who've already been vaccinated and they aim to complete them by the end of the month, but there's only a very small number of them who have their second dose. I know someone who booked their jag a couple of weeks ago and they also booked their second dose at the same time (for 12 weeks time), so like most who are getting them right now, won't be fully vaccinated until end of April.

Edited January 21, 2021 by s_dog

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

I went to a huge gay club in Berlin and there was a floor like this. Everyone seemed  to be enjoying themselves 

Its good the huge gays have somewhere to go, unlike  this poor chap.

1 hour ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I see there’s talk that Furlough will be extended beyond April. Another sign that they’re in no great hurry to lift restrictions. Whilst folk are being paid to sit on their fat arses watching Netflix there won’t be any clamour to return to normal life (pre March 2020). Honestly can’t believe that people will still be happy to exist rather than live when the most vulnerable and elderly will or at least should have been vaccinated by then.

Absolutely deflated that it’s been weeks/months now since I was last allowed to go out beyond South Ayrshire and there’s no sign of that changing any time soon 

 

[Distant Doonhamer]

2 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

Yep. It's almost like she's enjoying her time in the spotlight. Every time the fridge door opens she probably feels compelled to do a turn.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, s_dog said:

Does it state anywhere that it's for both doses? Because the numbers for being vaccinated by for example, over 70's by mid-Feb definitely do not include two doses. There are lots of NHS staff & now social care staff who've already been vaccinated and they aim to complete them by the end of the month, but there's only a very small number of them who have their second dose. I know someone who booked their jag a couple of weeks ago and they also booked their second dose at the same time (for 12 weeks time).

Yes, 100% it doesn't.

My parents are over 80 and they received their first jab earlier this week with the second due on April 12th and our area appears to be ahead of many.

 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

I think if Holiday companies, Restaurant chains, Pub chains, Concert organisers etc, etc, take the same attitude, then people "excluded" might not exactly be ecstatic about it..........
"Civil unrest" mark 2

Aye, i will take the vaccine but this shit about needing to show that i have done so or effectively be forced to live off the grid can get tae, that’s not how we should ever be thinking about doing things in a free country

[Guest]

1 minute ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Aye, i will take the vaccine but this shit about needing to show that i have done so or effectively be forced to live off the grid can get tae, that’s not how we should ever be thinking about doing things in a free country

Agreed.

[craigkillie]

4 minutes ago, s_dog said:

Does it state anywhere that it's for both doses? Because the numbers for being vaccinated by for example, over 70's by mid-Feb definitely do not include two doses. There are lots of NHS staff & now social care staff who've already been vaccinated and they aim to complete them by the end of the month, but there's only a very small number of them who have their second dose. I know someone who booked their jag a couple of weeks ago and they also booked their second dose at the same time (for 12 weeks time), so like most who are getting them right now, won't be fully vaccinated until end of April.

I've misremembered that actually, it's one dose by the early May and both doses by mid-July. However, they are expecting around 2m to have both doses by the end of May.

[ICTChris]

Tony Blair's terrifyingly titled Institute for Global Change has produced a paper estimating how quickly restrictions can be eased.

https://institute.global/policy/sunlit-uplands-vaccine-rollout-and-return-normality?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=launch

Here's the table they have produced.

[Elixir]

16 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

17 hours ago, Elixir said:

The measures right now effectively are.

Eh, I spent 3 weeks with family in Turkey just over 3 months ago (October)

'Right now'.

[Elixir]

19 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

She loves herself. I can't remember despising someone as much for a long time.

Most scientists know that 'zero covid' is pseudoscience in the same way that 'zero influenza' or 'zero common cold' is.

Roughly 20% of the population have already had it ffs. Absolute lunatic.

Edit: and the worrying thing is that people who are too stupid and/or can't think logically for themselves, just blow smoke up her arse and think it's the only conceivable way back to (what wouldn't be) normality. It's so dangerous that Sturgeon listens to her.

She is not a virologist or epidemiologist. She is a glorified nutritionist, just like that Ding impostor.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Elixir

[s_dog]

7 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

I like Sridhar to be fair, not sure how feasible Zero Covid is for the UK but don't get the scorn people on here pour on her, especially when our actions so far have been such a disaster.

Anyway, the quote you've picked out "while scientists advise gov on how best to proceed, we should each focus on avoiding the virus", sounds very much like, in the meantime while we wait for the gov to act, all we can do is.....

Besides that, she has clearly set out her ideas for how to get to Zero Covid, much like Australia (drive cases low with lockdown, have a proper test & trace system & strict border controls, with payment for isolation & quarantine and checks to make sure it's being followed, targeted local lockdowns as soon as there is any outbreak & now with the added hope from vaccinations).  You might not agree with it, or think its rubbish, but she's been saying that for a while now.

[HibsFan]

1 minute ago, s_dog said:

Besides that, she has clearly set out her ideas for how to get to Zero Covid, much like Australia (drive cases low with lockdown, have a proper test & trace system & strict border controls, with payment for isolation & quarantine and checks to make sure it's being followed, targeted local lockdowns as soon as there is any outbreak & now with the added hope from vaccinations).  You might not agree with it, or think its rubbish, but she's been saying that for a while now.

In that article? She's not mentioned Australia once, or given any suggestions. She probably has been saying some of that, a fair amount of which I don't even disagree with, but what haven't these nerds been saying since this all started? They're fucking loving this limelight and that's why they're rubbing people the wrong way.

[Marshmallo]

18 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

The replies full of old lads telling her how amazing she is while typing one handed will never fail to send chills down my spine

[Elixir]

How is Germany's amazing test and trace system working out?

'Test and trace' is the biggest busted flush of this whole sorry incident.

[Markka]

Tony Blair's terrifyingly titled Institute for Global Change has produced a paper estimating how quickly restrictions can be eased.
https://institute.global/policy/sunlit-uplands-vaccine-rollout-and-return-normality?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=launch
Here's the table they have produced.

The Accelerated Scenario isn't bad at all IMO. Would take that right now.