Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34807884 (Its okay though, she apologised)

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18080232.new-snp-resignation-alleged-anti-semitism/ (oh wait, a resignation this time)

PC pish though..

I don't have a problem with either of those things, in fact I also believe that the Israelis are behaving like Nazi's and I think we should all be free to criticise any regime which is persecuting others.

 I also don't see any outcry when someone makes a joke about Christians and Lions which I find rather ironic.

Yes, what happened to the Jews at the hands of Hitler was terrible/ unimaginable but I fail to see what that has to do with anything that's happening in Scotland in the 21st century.

Let's just say that it's pretty apparent that some are hiding behind a tragedy in order to do as they please but avoid any sort of dissent or criticism.

[H Wragg]

Indeed it would- I fucked that one up, didn't I?

I wasn't sure. [emoji16]

The Foinavon incident was a car crash in its own right, just like this 'Save Christmas' carry on might turn out to be

[Ivo den Bieman]

9 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Wait, what?

What others are you using as a comparison here?

The results in Scotland are absolutely dreadful. It's clear that anyone who thinks the SNP & SG have done a "reasonable job" does so whilst either ignoring, or being ignorant of, this.

France

Sweden

Italy

Spain (all functioning, fully independent democracies who have had a torrid time with the virus)

or if you prefer- Russia (23000 infections in one day last week and a fantasy vaccine) Belarus (virus let rip by psycho dictator) Brazil (ditto).

Note all these countries are fully independent. Scotland has the right to differentiate from UK policy and have tried to maximise that. However, to some extent, our capacity to act is hobbled by the crazy bullshit down south.

Yes there are things to criticise about the response here and any inquiry will be tough. Yes Scotland has been badly affected and yes things could have been done better.

The difference is Westminster have been more interested in managing perceptions of their handling of the virus, whilst doling out vast amounts of public money to cronies,  whereas in Scotland an attempt has been made to treat it as a public health rather than a PR problem.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

They don't have to fanny about making doctors' offices sterile between each flu jag recipient, though.

Don't see why they would with the Covid vaccine either, it's much the same process. Everyone wearing masks and gloves, careful distancing, and mainly nurses rather than doctors. Care homes and elderly confined at home would obviously need visits.

Edited November 23, 2020 by welshbairn

[Markka]

This is a poor argument.
Obviously we will never know how anyone else would have performed.
All we do know is that the way the SNP handled it, and that was very poorly.
It's an incredible state of affairs when appalling performance is not only accepted, but defended and championed by the majority, "because independence."
Yes, many of us on P&B are pro-independence, but we should not become so consumed by the idea that we accept any old rubbish from the SNP on the basis that they are the only party that can realistically deliver it.

Anyone out there championing the current SNP led government for Indy purposes despite their Covid failings is blinkered.

However, as previously stated i'm not convinced the other options would have done any "better" and unless otherwise convinced I'll likely still vote for them in hope of achieving independence.

[Dundee Hibernian]

Regarding the Christmas liberty offer from Westminster and subsequently Holyrood, it's being introduced because of likely festive lockdown non compliance, given the nature of the Great British Public. Apologies if this has been posted already.

 

[ICTChris]

Always puzzles me how self-centred people are when it comes to their politics.  Essentially, if they fit with the little tribe I have picked for myself I'll excuse anything, racism, bullying, hair sniffing or sometimes all three.

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

France

Sweden

Italy

Spain (all functioning, fully independent democracies who have had a torrid time with the virus)

or if you prefer- Russia (23000 infections in one day last week and a fantasy vaccine) Belarus (virus let rip by psycho dictator) Brazil (ditto).

Note all these countries are fully independent. Scotland has the right to differentiate from UK policy and have tried to maximise that. However, to some extent, our capacity to act is hobbled by the crazy bullshit down south.

Yes there are things to criticise about the response here and any inquiry will be tough. Yes Scotland has been badly affected and yes things could have been done better.

The difference is Westminster have been more interested in managing perceptions of their handling of the virus, whilst doling out vast amounts of public money to cronies,  whereas in Scotland an attempt has been made to treat it as a public health rather than a PR problem.

So not done better than many, then. Pretty few, in fact.

Why do you think we have done better than Sweden or Belarus btw?

[Ivo den Bieman]

47 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Any government in normal circumstances, which in the last 12 months has had....Derek McKay's antics, several elected officials posting anti-Semitic Tweets, the Care Homes situation, the First Minister 'forgetting' if she was at a meeting concerning Salmond or not, the exams fiasco, Ian Blackford travelling to Skye during lockdown, the stooshie over the Central Edinburgh selection process, Cherry v Robertson, the NIKE Confrence,  students returning to uni's and outbreaks happening pretty quickly.....would be struggling a bit in the polls. Instead we have seen a rise in SNP numbers. No opposition must also be a factor in that. Any government generally looks tired after nearly 14 years in office, but the SNP are still able to paint themselves as a protest movement for change, rather than an elected government.

Agreed the lack of a worthwhile opposition is a real problem. At the last GE my choice was between some nice identikit SNP family-man type or Ross fucking Thomson’s successor.

I’d also sooner drink hemlock than vote for Labour or the “Lib Dems”.

At some point though not being the Tories or Labour won’t be enough of a reason to vote SNP. Once independence is achieved I doubt I’ll ever vote for them again. On top of the sleazy stuff mentioned above there’s a seriously corrupt and corrupting lobby culture emerging in Edinburgh.

If we’re going to be independent to be run by a sleazy government whose instincts are increasingly mediocre and right wing, then people will begin to ask what the point of independence is. If this is the kind of government we want then we’d be as well sticking with the original version in London.

I want independence because Scotland can be a much better place, governed much better. It’s sad that the SNP seem ever more unlikely to be the party that will take Scotland in that direction.

[D.A.F.C]

Always puzzles me how self-centred people are when it comes to their politics.  Essentially, if they fit with the little tribe I have picked for myself I'll excuse anything, racism, bullying, hair sniffing or sometimes all three.

Average Friday night for salmond

[Todd_is_God]

8 minutes ago, Markka said:

Anyone out there championing the current SNP led government for Indy purposes despite their Covid failings is blinkered.

However, as previously stated i'm not convinced the other options would have done any "better" and unless otherwise convinced I'll likely still vote for them in hope of achieving independence.

Openly admitting to accepting any old rubbish from the SNP "because idependence" is a bold strategy.

You're not alone, of course, hence why an utterly inept Government will win easily next year.

[Ivo den Bieman]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

So not done better than many, then. Pretty few, in fact.

Why do you think we have done better than Sweden or Belarus btw?

In Sweden they went for herd immunity which was a disaster that the government subsequently apologised for.

I suggest you google Belarus and COVID if you’re asking seriously. Maybe you’re one of those types that rage tweets comparisons of Sturgeon to Lukashenko or Kim Jong Un, because Tier 3 restrictions closed your local gym.

[Guest Jedi]

Excellent points Ivo Den Bieman...regarding sleaze and Independence...pretty much where I am at, at the moment as well (apart from being able to mark that x in an SNP box in May.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Jedi

[Todd_is_God]

15 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Don't see why they would with the Covid vaccine either, it's much the same process. Everyone wearing masks and gloves, careful distancing, and mainly nurses rather than doctors. Care homes and elderly confined at home would obviously need visits.

Because the vaccine doesn't protect immediately. You can't have one person leave a small room and then another immediately enter it.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

Because the vaccine doesn't protect immediately. You can't have one person leave a small room and then another immediately enter it.

Neither does the flu vaccine. I don't understand your point.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

In Sweden they went for herd immunity which was a disaster that the government subsequently apologised for.

I suggest you google Belarus and COVID if you’re asking seriously. Maybe you’re one of those types that rage tweets comparisons of Sturgeon to Lukashenko or Kim Jong Un, because Tier 3 restrictions closed your local gym.

And yet both have better figures than Scotland.

Maybe you should do your research.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Neither does the flu vaccine. I don't understand your point.

But we don't close society because there might be some flu virus in a room.

Given the lengths we have gone to for 8 months, i'm surprised you think we'd all of a sudden abondon the additional hygiene measures in the room where vaccinations were administered.

[Markka]

Openly admitting to accepting any old rubbish from the SNP "because idependence" is a bold strategy.
You're not alone, of course, hence why an utterly inept Government will win easily next year.

Repeating myself - I'm not convinced any of the others would have done any better dealing with Covid. If there was an alternative independence supporting party that I did think would have done better, they would probably have my vote.

So not done better than many, then. Pretty few, in fact.
Why do you think we have done better than Sweden or Belarus btw?

I reckon it will be a few years before we know whose approach was better.

[strichener]

26 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

France

Sweden

Italy

Spain (all functioning, fully independent democracies who have had a torrid time with the virus)

or if you prefer- Russia (23000 infections in one day last week and a fantasy vaccine) Belarus (virus let rip by psycho dictator) Brazil (ditto).

Note all these countries are fully independent. Scotland has the right to differentiate from UK policy and have tried to maximise that. However, to some extent, our capacity to act is hobbled by the crazy bullshit down south.

Yes there are things to criticise about the response here and any inquiry will be tough. Yes Scotland has been badly affected and yes things could have been done better.

The difference is Westminster have been more interested in managing perceptions of their handling of the virus, whilst doling out vast amounts of public money to cronies,  whereas in Scotland an attempt has been made to treat it as a public health rather than a PR problem.

They'll just refuse to release the information using legal privilege or some "it would allow the COVID victims to be identified" excuse.

Edited November 23, 2020 by strichener

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

But we don't close society because there might be some flu virus in a room.

Given the lengths we have gone to for 8 months, i'm surprised you think we'd all of a sudden abondon the additional hygiene measures in the room where vaccinations were administered.

I had a flu vaccine 2 weeks ago. The only difference from last year was that we were all wearing masks, and social distancing is strictly regulated. I doubt there is much risk of the vaccine bursting into the air while being injected, if that's what you mean.

Edited November 23, 2020 by welshbairn