Todd_is_God Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Again, (how many times do I need to do this), I'll point out that NS and the SG are merely following the science and that science is almost identical across the whole of Europe. But the scientists behind these models aren't the ones on TV daily claiming their interventions are working. Household visits have been banned in Glasgow for 45 days now, and the number of new cases have continued to rise the whole time. Now bars and restaurants are closed indefinitely, and there is no sign of that having any impact either. The experts might well be right about what measures will help, but they need to be applied correctly. If I cut my face then a plaster will stop it bleeding, but not if I stick it on my arm because it looks better. Edited October 21, 2020 by Todd_is_God 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Again, (how many times do I need to do this), I'll point out that NS and the SG are merely following the science and that science is almost identical across the whole of Europe. If, for the sake of arguing, Scotland was doing things completely differently from everyone else and if we were intentionally destroying our economy while also pissing off large sections of our population, then again Yes, I'd agree with you, however the argument ending point is that We're NOT !!! Take a quick look at the current restrictions around Europe with regards to the closure of hospitality, cancelled sporting events, curfews etc, etc,etc. I think this whole argument has now boiled down to those who see covid as a threat and those who don't and there's no doubt what camp a few of you on this thread are currently in, rightly or wrongly. Once again though, if you're right then that would mean that the leading scientists and clinicians are all wrong which would seem a rather strange coincidence unless it was in fact a global conspiracy to destroy wealth and the western Economy that all the leaders were in on ??? Well, who knows ?? We seem to be following the science when it suits our leaders. Forth Valley has one of the lowest figures in Scotland but has just been closed down for another week 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Well, aye. I find it slightly odd that, among those advising, there are no epidemiologists or virologists. I don't expect NS or a Dentist to be subject matter experts, but I would expect, as a minimum, for them to consult those who are.If only we had someone with something like a masters in Public Health from Harvard instead of a dentist eh ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: But the scientists behind these models aren't the ones on TV daily claiming their interventions are working. Household visits have been banned in Glasgow for 45 days now, and the number of new cases have continued to rise the whole time. Now bars and restaurants are closed indefinitely, and there is no sign of that having any impact either. The experts might well be right about what measures will help, but they need to be applied correctly. If I cut my face then a plaster will stop it bleeding, but not if I stick it on my arm because it looks better. So, do you believe we should have a full lockdown then ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, superbigal said: Something killing care home residents in dumfries. I'd check the cold meat best before date. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, AyrExile said: We seem to be following the science when it suits our leaders. Forth Valley has one of the lowest figures in Scotland but has just been closed down for another week Seriously though, what leader would take a decision to destroy their own economy, piss off their electorate and come across as incompetent ? Does anyone seriously believe that NS (or anyone else for that matter) is doing this out of spite or as some sort of game ??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, WATTOO said: So, do you believe we should have a full lockdown then ? No, distancing and enhanced hygiene is effective. But they need to be in place in all 'risk' areas, which, by the looks of it, includes senior years of schools. Increasing restrictions/closing hospitality, whilst doing nothing in schools, isn't the answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: No, distancing and enhanced hygiene is effective. But they need to be in place in all 'risk' areas, which, by the looks of it, includes senior years of schools. Increasing restrictions/closing hospitality, whilst doing nothing in schools, isn't the answer. Right, so closing the schools will make it all go away ?? That doesn't seem to be having much of an effect across Central and Eastern Europe at the moment......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) Interested to see what gets the blame when everything in Glasgow is shut except the schools and case numbers continue to increase. My guess is undefined "scum" who aren't obeying the rules. It can't be schools being open with no distancing or masks because "ma two huvny hud it". Edited October 21, 2020 by Marshmallo 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, AyrExile said: We seem to be following the science when it suits our leaders. Forth Valley has one of the lowest figures in Scotland but has just been closed down for another week ...and the week after that they introduce the tier system, which will presumably allow Forth Valley to open up to at least where it was two weeks ago, if not hopefully further. With 5 tiers and Glasgow presumably in tier 4 and tier 1 is basically normality then if you can get into tier 2 that presumably allows for significant change from present. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, WATTOO said: Right, so closing the schools will make it all go away ?? That doesn't seem to be having much of an effect across Central and Eastern Europe at the moment......... Who mentioned closing them? There is one country in Europe where life is very different right now. Maybe we should be more open to looking at what they did, look to improve any areas they made mistakes in, and stop pretending that we simply must prevent absolutely anyone dying from Covid irrespective of cost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I see the "red dot" moron squad are out in force today, thankfully I've had them (and their team) on ignore for quite some time now which gives an all round better forum experience for all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I appreciate that I'm rewinding the conversation a bit here but I'm feeling a bit conflicted about the whole Burnham business in Manchester. He is, of course, absolutely right in his view that tighter measures in Manchester and elsewhere are going to lead to greater hardships, poverty etc. I think it is shameful that decades of neglect and funding cuts meant that when this crisis hit what passes for an effective welfare state lay in tatters and the safeguards and protections that the state should provide by default weren't, and aren't, in place. I think Burnham is very adept at picking up the prevailing mood at any given time as witnessed by his reaction at the Hillsborough memorial service at Anfield a number of years back. He was right back then too. So why am I conflicted? I'm distrustful of populists and the rhetoric coming from Burnham looks to be populism but framed in a left of centre narrative. Even the way he dresses looks like an attempt to position himself as anti-establishment. It's been in part a distrust of politicians and the establishment that led to Brext and the election of the likes of Trump and Johnson and I feel like he is trying to tap into that level of mistrust and sentiment. Is he better than Boris and his cronies? Well of course he is but I get the sense of him echoing back what he is hearing elsewhere. A case of telling people what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear. I'm not sure that now is the time for populists and populism. Am I miles off the mark here? I hope that I am. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: Who mentioned closing them? There is one country in Europe where life is very different right now. Maybe we should be more open to looking at what they did, look to improve any areas they made mistakes in, and stop pretending that we simply must prevent absolutely anyone dying from Covid irrespective of cost. I'm pretty sure we can't just change our whole society to match Sweden overnight, if we could, I'd be all for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, renton said: ...and the week after that they introduce the tier system, which will presumably allow Forth Valley to open up to at least where it was two weeks ago, if not hopefully further. With 5 tiers and Glasgow presumably in tier 4 and tier 1 is basically normality then if you can get into tier 2 that presumably allows for significant change from present. I find it incredibly unlikely that anyone will be moving down the tiers this side of February. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, Todd_is_God said: I find it incredibly unlikely that anyone will be moving down the tiers this side of February. you think everyone will just get chucked into tier 4? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: Interested to see what gets the blame when everything in Glasgow is shut except the schools and case numbers continue to increase. My guess is undefined "scum" who aren't obeying the rules. It can't be schools being open with no distancing or masks because "ma two huvny hud it". The idea that everything is shut is laughable. I was in coffee shop this morning that was mobbed then went into a busy supermarket. Most people are wearing masks that only block 3% of particles but we have gotten to a point where we think a piece of cloth makes us invincible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, John MacLean said: I'm not sure that now is the time for populists and populism. Am I miles off the mark here? I hope that I am. You are completely wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, Detournement said: The idea that everything is shut is laughable. I was in coffee shop this morning that was mobbed then went into a busy supermarket. Most people are wearing masks that only block 3% of particles but we have gotten to a point where we think a piece of cloth makes us invincible. We aren't there yet but we are heading that way if what I've read (admittedly on sites such as "Glasgow Live") today is correct as we move towards different tiers, with the most extreme essentially looking like April but with schools open. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, renton said: You think everyone will just get chucked into tier 4? No I don't think so. Just that it is much more likely that cases will increase over winter than any of the restrictions doing anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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