Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[invergowrie arab]

I get the bucket full analogy and that it isn't about whether or not schools are safer/less safe than gyms.

I do wonder what impact or what reduction in spread they anticipate achieving by closing gyms though.

Feels like a doctor telling you you are two stone overweight so you go home and cut your nails.

[super_carson]

7 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Personally though and as you say, I see no reason why they can't have remote learning but do wonder if it's maybe more to do with a child minding service to ensure the parents can go back to work ???

One of the main reasons that remote learning wasn't seen as realistic was due to equity (in terms of access to equipment for online lessons, and support for learners with additional needs) and it was hard to motivate children to do the tasks that had been set.  Generally the quality of learning was inferior and was only to make the attainment gap even wider (it's already massive after the first lockdown) and, anecdotally, I've noticed a really negative change in behaviour in pupils since their return to school.  So from that point of view, keeping schools open is the right thing to do.  Perhaps I'm jaded with everything just now and being cynical but I suspect that the decision is more to do with parents than children, however.  

[D.V.T.]

Other than kids without devices to learn from or internet access, kids with special needs and the likelihood of children actually paying attention to the device when they have other screens/distractions.
Anyone who thinks u16s are going to be able to log in and focus on learning for 5-6 hours a day with no direct supervision obviously doesn't remember what it's like to be a child. 
There would be a massive gap between kids with a high level of parental supervision/help and those who don't have that. 

Pretty much all this. As someone who works within a support service within a mainstream school, being there and being with their friends and other classmates is massive for the children. It’s important in terms of improving their social skills, ability to focus and that overall feeling of being part of something.

[Binos]

4 minutes ago, super_carson said:

One of the main reasons that remote learning wasn't seen as realistic was due to equity (in terms of access to equipment for online lessons, and support for learners with additional needs) and it was hard to motivate children to do the tasks that had been set.  Generally the quality of learning was inferior and was only to make the attainment gap even wider (it's already massive after the first lockdown) and, anecdotally, I've noticed a really negative change in behaviour in pupils since their return to school.  So from that point of view, keeping schools open is the right thing to do.  Perhaps I'm jaded with everything just now and being cynical but I suspect that the decision is more to do with parents than children, however.  

Blended learning will come

After the October experiment doesn't work

The majority of parents will let their kids watch tv,/own devices

[D.V.T.]

One of the main reasons that remote learning wasn't seen as realistic was due to equity (in terms of access to equipment for online lessons, and support for learners with additional needs) and it was hard to motivate children to do the tasks that had been set.  Generally the quality of learning was inferior and was only to make the attainment gap even wider (it's already massive after the first lockdown) and, anecdotally, I've noticed a really negative change in behaviour in pupils since their return to school.  So from that point of view, keeping schools open is the right thing to do.  Perhaps I'm jaded with everything just now and being cynical but I suspect that the decision is more to do with parents than children, however.  

I’m not a parent but having to juggle working from home and then home schooling the kids and constantly on their backs to complete tasks must be mentally fucking draining.

[s_dog]

4 hours ago, davidkennedyshand said:

My other half worked on a ward with covid patients and has never been tested. Only one ward to be tested and it's the one that didn't have any covid patients.
No masks at all for weeks when it kicked off either.
Luckily they've had no cases since the first lot

Seems crazy reading of all these people not being tested. I know 3 nurses, none work directly with Covid-19 patients, but all three have regular tests. Three different health boards.

[peasy23]

Seems crazy reading of all these people not being tested. I know 3 nurses, none work directly with Covid-19 patients, but all three have regular tests. Three different health boards.

It's mental. My mate works at Erskine home, but doesn't see any residents these days. He gets tested every week even though he is working from home the majority of the time.

[super_carson]

Just now, D.V.T. said:

 

I’m not a parent but having to juggle working from home and then home schooling the kids and constantly on their backs to complete tasks must be mentally fucking draining.

 

Oh it massively is, and I have a lot of sympathy for parents.  We also need to remember that parents aren't teachers and therefore may not be teaching something exactly right, or covering all the relevant parts of the curriculum for that area/subject.  We can do as much as we can in terms of providing work and resources but that is, in many ways, the easy part.  The hard bit is for parents having to balance their own work with home/blended learning.  It's nearly impossible to control behaviour remotely, and so the demand shifts on to parents to manage that and that's a very tough ask.    

[Michael W]

31 minutes ago, D.V.T. said:

 

I’m not a parent but having to juggle working from home and then home schooling the kids and constantly on their backs to complete tasks must be mentally fucking draining.

 

I don't have school-aged children but do have a daughter (GOT A WEAN, BUT ONLY THE WAN EH THEM THOUGH, EH) at nursery. There's no getting away from it, it's an utter in pain in the arse trying to work whilst you've a kid running around. I imagine trying to get a kid sit and learn is also tedious, even if they in theory need less intervention in other areas 

Being locked down and being unable to do pretty basic things because cases are too high and people are dying  is however an even larger pain in the arse. There comes a stage where the rates of both should not be tolerated for the sake of keeping schools open, because it just prolongs the misery for everyone - those at risk of dying/serious illness, those worried about the impact of covid on their jobs and those that are simply losing their minds because there's nothing to do. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Michael W

[s_dog]

1 minute ago, peasy23 said:

It's mental. My mate works at Erskine home, but doesn't see any residents these days. He gets tested every week even though he is working from home the majority of the time.

FFS, we like to think our part of the testing is being done a little bit better than the UK as a whole (not sure about social care but hospital testing is certainly NHS Scotland), but this apparent hit and miss testing, and the fact that in the two care homes that have had a number of deaths recently, it turns out they are waiting 6 days for their results, it's just blood depressing.

[philpy]

1 hour ago, mizfit said:

That’s Cristiano Ronaldo testing positive for Covid

. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

I see Johnson and Johnson have halted their vaccine trial after one of the patients showed an “unexplained illness”. Rather than focusing solely on vaccines I think more of an effort should be made in trying to find a test kit that can be done from home with results straight away. Having people wait 48hrs for results when they can still go to work (my cousin works for a company that are tested every week) or socialise etc is far from ideal 

An effective vaccine is an absolute game changer. Pausing a trial in the circumstances you highlight is very common and is exactly as it should be.

[Distant Doonhamer]

£10 billion spent on a track and trace system that it is freely acknowledged is failing to deliver in any meaningful way.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2805

We need Todd is God back to reassure us that Covid is over as a public health emergency.

[madwullie]

Feel like pure shit just want @Todd_is_Godback

[Thistle_do_nicely]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Other than kids without devices to learn from or internet access, kids with special needs and the likelihood of children actually paying attention to the device when they have other screens/distractions.

Anyone who thinks u16s are going to be able to log in and focus on learning for 5-6 hours a day with no direct supervision obviously doesn't remember what it's like to be a child. 

There would be a massive gap between kids with a high level of parental supervision/help and those who don't have that. 

dude just give schools thousands upon thousands of pounds for it equipment to entrust to almost of their cohort lmao

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, WATTOO said:

I don't disagree with your post at all and in fact totally agree with it, however Governments both here and across Europe seem to be willing to throw caution to the wind in order to keep our places of learning physically open and they're all pretty up front about this as well.

I can think of two European governments who are pretty up front about punting this utter nonsense argument in the bin and whose record in suppressing the first wave was very good indeed. Why do you trust a government that ended up with the worst economic downturn and worst excess death toll in the whole of Europe to make that decision instead?

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

Other than kids without devices to learn from or internet access, kids with special needs and the likelihood of children actually paying attention to the device when they have other screens/distractions.

Anyone who thinks u16s are going to be able to log in and focus on learning for 5-6 hours a day with no direct supervision obviously doesn't remember what it's like to be a child. 

There would be a massive gap between kids with a high level of parental supervision/help and those who don't have that. 

As opposed of course to this Fantasy Island Secondary of yours in which parental/external help does not produce a massive gap in attainment and students are super-focused by being punted in a room with 30 people of the same age group from 9 to half 3. 

3 hours ago, D.V.T. said:

 

Pretty much all this. As someone who works within a support service within a mainstream school, being there and being with their friends and other classmates is massive for the children. It’s important in terms of improving their social skills, ability to focus and that overall feeling of being part of something.

 

Nobody has suggested blanket closures of schools though: the logical measure to take however is to reduce the number of hours of classroom learning through a blended learning model, so that schools can actually meet the same distancing requirements in their buildings and classrooms as any other sector of society right now. And they can bung on masks while they're there as well. 

There is no solid educational grounds for having thirty children learning in the building for thirty hours per week and absolutely no valid exception that can be made for that in the middle of a pandemic. Every other sector has had to make necessary adjustments: why should schools be magically exempt other than setting up a one-way system? 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by vikingTON

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

I'm sure there was a poster on here (@jacksgranda?) who said they had taken part in this - 'the most successful political strike in UK history'. 

Up the workers eh!

I took part in it to the extent I couldn't go to my work and the pubs were closed.

[Detournement]

No one is saying that the current system is perfect but you would have to be a bitter misanthrope to want to replace it with something much worse.

Everyone who is saying do remote learning is saying just abandon every kid in the country with special educational needs. 

[vikingTON]

10 minutes ago, Detournement said:

No one is saying that the current system is perfect but you would have to be a bitter misanthrope to want to replace it with something much worse.

You'd have to provide evidence first that's it's 'much worse' in educational terms to have c.15 hours per week in a classroom and the other 15 doing teacher-directed tasks at home first because you just stating this over and over again doesn't actually make it correct.

And nobody is just 'wanting to replace it' on educational grounds anyway - the trigger for this is actually an ongoing, global pandemic that is affecting literally every other activity of daily life and yet sees government advice being chucked out of the window when it comes to just one sector.

Quote

Everyone who is saying do remote learning is saying just abandon every kid in the country with special educational needs. 

Well no because nobody's actually saying 'just do remote learning' champ. And secondly, we're actually discussing mainstream schools with 30 weans chucked together with a single teacher in the same room. The truly severe special educational needs are generally in specialist schools where class sizes are lower: the rest still get access to support for the hours that they are still in school.

The idea that every single child in the country must have full-time schooling because what about special needs is risible nonsense.

Edited October 13, 2020 by vikingTON

[madwullie]

There's absolutely no reason other than "because that's the way it's always been done" for schooling to take the form it currently does. 

In an ideal world this would have been the catalyst for an exploration of other, potentially better, ways of delivering education,at least at secondary level where play isn't such an integral part of the experience. 

Sadly it became quickly politicised when Jack McConnell and that bonkers group of lockdown-sceptic parents whose name I forget flooded social media with their pish, and it stopped being about giving the best possible experience and became this is the way we've always done it and therefore always must do it.