Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Jambomo]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

This current attempt to balance handling the outbreak against keeping going what the government deems to be important was tried once already in March and it failed spectacularly.

What do you think a realistic good outcome looks like? If you think it failed spectacularly, what outcome did you think it would achieve? I think the purpose was to keep strain off health services and from that perspective it has worked. People are going to catch it, transmission will happen, It’s inevitable.

Our society is built around kids learning in school. I noticed some discussion a bit back about blended learning, which made me laugh as last weekend I was in Fife and was speaking to someone who is a teacher. She pretty much said they simply don’t have decent enough Internet in the area (Near Falkland) to actually teach the kids, and she had 3 kids trying to work off 1 family tablet. Teaching them at home is simply not an option to be relied upon over a longer term.
 

We have to accept that the way things are at the moment, we can’t simply close everything and wait indoors for it to pass, kids need taught and people need to work. That’s the society we built and the consequences of that. No government, good or bad, can change that now.

[MONKMAN]

A total piece of piss.
I've genuinely got no idea why people make out it's even slightly unpleasant, never mind some sort of ordeal.

It’s brutal. I get tested regularly with work and not once have I thought it was anything other than a horribly unpleasant experience. I’ve yet to hear any of the hundred odd people at my work say anything different.

[19QOS19]

Had one on Friday and have to say it was horrible. Didn't really care about the nose part as I weirdly enjoy the wanting to sneeze sensation but the scraping of the back of the throat was just horrible.

Even better, I've to self test myself for the next 3 weeks.

[Steven W]

11 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

What do you think a realistic good outcome looks like? If you think it failed spectacularly, what outcome did you think it would achieve? I think the purpose was to keep strain off health services and from that perspective it has worked. People are going to catch it, transmission will happen, It’s inevitable.

Our society is built around kids learning in school. I noticed some discussion a bit back about blended learning, which made me laugh as last weekend I was in Fife and was speaking to someone who is a teacher. She pretty much said they simply don’t have decent enough Internet in the area (Near Falkland) to actually teach the kids, and she had 3 kids trying to work off 1 family tablet. Teaching them at home is simply not an option to be relied upon over a longer term.
 

We have to accept that the way things are at the moment, we can’t simply close everything and wait indoors for it to pass, kids need taught and people need to work. That’s the society we built and the consequences of that. No government, good or bad, can change that now.

Good luck to you, but you're debating this with people who are either lacking in the trouser department, or are so socially awkward they're spending endless hours of their posting on the internet.

I'll try myself too; but what this, (and I'm including my own recent childish posts) just goes to show is that everyone just wants stuff open, and stuff shut to suit their own personal agenda. What the SG need to do (and they're making a complete hash of it) is find a balance that restricts enough so the virus doesn't go, er, viral, and at the same time open up things so that people remain in jobs. Not easy.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Steven W

[MONKMAN]

Had one on Friday and have to say it was horrible. Didn't really care about the nose part as I weirdly enjoy the wanting to sneeze sensation but the scraping of the back of the throat was just horrible.

Even better, I've to self test myself for the next 3 weeks.

A lot of the self tests are giving false results because people aren’t swabbing themselves properly. I know I wouldn’t do it to myself the same way the nurses do when I get tested. It’s horrible and anyone that suggests otherwise either hasn’t been tested, or it wasn’t carried out correctly.

[101]

Whatever happens next needs to be in the order of number of cases caused, we have already tackled what's supposed to be number one, in house transmission the next big thing is likely to be Education or Hospitality. 

If it's hospitality maybe we could close wet pubs and keep the rest open? That's surely better than a blanket ban. 

If it's Education it's time to enforce 2 meter distancing and work from there so if that means a rota system for the most academic/ least deprived then so be it.

[vikingTON]

20 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

What do you think a realistic good outcome looks like? If you think it failed spectacularly, what outcome did you think it would achieve? I think the purpose was to keep strain off health services and from that perspective it has worked. People are going to catch it, transmission will happen, It’s inevitable.

It hasn't worked. ICU totals simply lag behind infection and if you think that the government is happy with how that is going then you must be listening to entirely different updates that aren't threatening yet more nonsense restrictions.

The Scottish government's position incidentally was to pursue zero Covid. That was the reason given for maintaining the longest lockdown in Europe earlier this year. If the SG has chucked this then it's about time it has that honest and adult conversation about why everyone wasted time and businesses went down the pan in June when the threat to hospitals was far less than it is right now.

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Our society is built around kids learning in school. I noticed some discussion a bit back about blended learning, which made me laugh as last weekend I was in Fife and was speaking to someone who is a teacher. She pretty much said they simply don’t have decent enough Internet in the area (Near Falkland) to actually teach the kids, and she had 3 kids trying to work off 1 family tablet. Teaching them at home is simply not an option to be relied upon over a longer term.

1) Society is actually built on lots of things that the government has arbitrarily binned indefinitely for the sake of public health. There is no actual, objectively higher value to a child's short-term education.

2) And yet again we see the myth that having schools comply with the same rules as every other sector constitutes 'teaching from home' and excuses about technology. It doesn't. Schools would still be operating until there is a severe lockdown: students would simply be doing more work in their own time and learning environment instead of sitting in an infection shed. There's absolutely no reason to accept the latter in the middle of a global pandemic and future generations will view this as idiocy: just like the gormless face masks message.

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We have to accept that the way things are at the moment, we can’t simply close everything and wait indoors for it to pass, kids need taught and people need to work. That’s the society we built and the consequences of that. No government, good or bad, can change that now.

No we don't just 'have to accept the way things are'. The government has an onus to make its case for any restrictions and to stick to the principles that it was supposedly using to combat an outbreak. This isn't March and so excuses about how nobody could possibly be prepared for this don't wash either. People should furious about the various UK governments' handling of the first wave and their gormless approach to the second one is looking just as bad. But hey we might not lob Covid patients into care homes again so we can count that as a win.

Edited October 5, 2020 by vikingTON

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

Only 4 years to go then we'll have a vaccine. Forward march. 

[Szamo's_Ammo]

Yes, the schools must stay open during a global pandemic no matter what because too many people will complain if they are closed or have restrictions placed on them like every other section of society.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Szamo's_Ammo

[Honest_Man#1]

22 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

What do you think a realistic good outcome looks like?

The government no longer lying to us and instead being honest and admitting that schools are being kept open despite the evidence showing that they are major contributors to the spread, whilst other industries that are lesser contributors are kept closed/planned to be closed because they are not deemed as important as education.

It’s an acceptable stance to take, but the brazen lies are not.

[Monkey Tennis]

13 minutes ago, MONKMAN said:

 

A lot of the self tests are giving false results because people aren’t swabbing themselves properly. I know I wouldn’t do it to myself the same way the nurses do when I get tested. It’s horrible and anyone that suggests otherwise either hasn’t been tested, or it wasn’t carried out correctly.

 

Mine must have been carried out incorrectly then.

It was back in April at the old Infirmary in Dumfries.  I honestly didn't get what any fuss was about.  Mine came back negative, whereas my son's, done at the same time, was positive.

[Jambomo]

4 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

The government no longer lying to us and instead being honest and admitting that schools are being kept open despite the evidence showing that they are major contributors to the spread, whilst other industries that are lesser contributors are kept closed/planned to be closed because they are not deemed as important as education.

It’s an acceptable stance to take, but the brazen lies are not.

I think that’s fair enough. I think they should be truthful about it as well. I don’t think that all of  the wider public would appreciate the truth though.

I was just reminded of someone who wants to sue the government because he was not allowed to open his gym. It’s a real minefield.

 

[madwullie]

Is there evidence that schools are "major contributors to spread"? 

Edited October 5, 2020 by madwullie

[RH33]

2 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Is there evidence that schools are "major contributors to spread"? 

I’m beginning to think I’m missing something. 
 

[renton]

5 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

The government no longer lying to us and instead being honest and admitting that schools are being kept open despite the evidence showing that they are major contributors to the spread, whilst other industries that are lesser contributors are kept closed/planned to be closed because they are not deemed as important as education.

It’s an acceptable stance to take, but the brazen lies are not.

This being based on the notion that the Government are definitely lying, despite the lack of infections in children, various studies demonstrating the far more limited susceptibility of younger age groups to the virus and interventions by members of the SAGE group pointing out that schools are very limited transmission nodes.

It's really quite possible that schools themselves are not what was driving the August increases prior to the Universities coming back. Schools going back went hand in hand with a more general opening of society, parents for example were free to return to work, or to spend more time doing other, social activities. Scot Gov identified house parties as driving a lot of transmission in the West as well, something that could be behaviousrly driven by people thinking the worst is over.

And this is the really depressing bit. Because the lure of "The Snippy Parent" theory of outbreak is that all it would take is a realignment of government priorities to stamp transmission back down. A nice single group to blame: Send the kids back to their parents and get the dullard, lazy teachers to get busy with remote learning, and watch the R number drop. If however, the pre Uni increases were intact driving by increased socialising and increased activity then it would appear that short of genuine zero covid, then there is simply a level of societal activity that starts to drive prevelance at high levels.

Short of a vaccine that would leave us in a place where we simply cycle through waves, hoping that immunity is longer than the time between waves so that each one is a smaller outbreak.

[Donathan]

On 01/10/2020 at 21:09, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

I've just noticed that Liechtenstein is on the safe travel list, but neither Austria or Switzerland are. Good luck traveling in or out of Liechtenstein without going via Austria or Switzerland.

San Marino and the Vatican City could find themselves in a similar situation when Italy goes on the naughty list.

 

Technically you could fly to Germany and then hire a car at the German airport. Munich is about a 3 hour drive from Liechtenstein. You'd go through both Austria and Switzerland but just driving through a country that's on the list is not in itself a reason to quarantine. A mate of mine drove all the way from Turkey about a month ago and had to meticulously plan his route and stops to avoid self-isolation.

[Michael W]

It's the constant hinting of measures in the days before implementing them that really pisses me off. If there's a problem, then just implement the bloody things rather than stretch it out for a few days. 

What do they realistically think is going to happen? That people who had been breacing the guidelines/law will just stop doing so and we'll see a 30% drop in cases in 48hrs? It's just downright irritating. 

We all know where it's going and that nothing is going to change in the short period of time before the new restriction happens, so just get on with it and stop treating the public with contempt. 

At times you also genuinely believe nothing has been learned from the f**k ups in March. How long did we got through the "restrictions coming soon" dithering back then? The results were also disastrous. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Michael W

[Dee Man]

15 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Is there evidence that schools are "major contributors to spread"? 

Yes - 3 or 4 posters have said it on here so that's all the evidence you need. 

[philpy]

Aye OK. Shut the pubs, because no one will think of buying carry outs and  going to house parties.... 

[Marshmallo]

8 minutes ago, Michael W said:

It's the constant hinting of measures in the days before implementing them that really pisses me off. If there's a problem, then just implement the bloody things rather than stretch it out for a few days. 

What do they realistically think is going to happen? That people who had been breacing the guidelines/law will just stop doing so and we'll see a 30% drop in cases in 48hrs? It's just downright irritating. 

We all know where it's going and that nothing is going to change in the short period of time before the new restriction happens, so just get on with it and stop treating the public with contempt. 

At times you also genuinely believe nothing has been learned from the f**k ups in March. How long did we got through the "restrictions coming soon" dithering back then? The results were also disastrous. 

Need to wait till the schools are off first