Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Michael W]

8 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

I don't disagree with much, or indeed most, of that. 

I think Governments world wide have faced/are facing the dilemma of trying to deal with the threat to people's health while not doing irreparable damage to the economy and/or as you put it "trash the futures of the working age population" in the process. I don't pretend to have the answers. 

I think in a lot of respects the non-compliance is more subtle than it was and I don't think sometimes people are truly aware that they are being non-compliant. 

To illustrate the above I had a conversation yesterday with someone who was complaining about house parties but also said that she had a friend round at the weekend (she lives in an area where that is currently prohibited) and said "ach, they don't mean things like that - they mean big parties". Well, yes big house parties are clearly more dangerous than two wummin gabbing over tea and cake but if we all think that our individual behaviour is exempt then collectively it becomes a problem. 

Yeah this is fair. As was your first post, which I largely agree with even if it may not have seemed like it. 

I can't help but feel the Governments (and not just those in the UK) have put their fingers in their ears a bit here. There was time to attempt to address the problems that the first lockdown imposed and get the conversation going about what we might be able to achieve once cases started to rise again, as they always would when contact increased, but this opportunity seems to have passed without progress. 

Don't get me wrong, the calls that would need to be made vary from uncomfortable to straight out horrible, but a second lockdown will be a disaster and it seems we are sleep-walking into one. In some ways I can't say I blame them: France for example has, for quite some time now, mandated masks in outdoor environments in many places and it hasn't addressed the issue. But then that's another place where hard decisions have been avoided. 

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, John MacLean said:

I'm not sure that's quite the same as todd's assertion that people, safe in their houses and jobs,  are "actively calling" for another full, UK wide, Lockdown. 

If push came to shove I'd possibly categorise myself as in favour of a further Lockdown but only if their was strong evidence to support that, which I don't think there currently is, and only with huge reluctance. Equally I don't see doing nothing as an option. So does that put me in the category of "actively calling" for another Lockdown? Absolutely not. 

 

I'm pretty similar to you - if we get 100+ hospitalisations in Scotland per day ala March/April then I believe we should be shutting down anything deemed to be "high risk". I think most of us have varying thresholds for when we would want those things to take place.

Easy for me to say though - I've worked from home for 6 months with no issues, no kids and since I live alone I can go into a bubble with my parents. Reasonably minor concerns for me in the grand scheme of things.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, Billy Jean King said:

Without a vaccine it looks like a cycle of lockdown - ease - lockdown - ease with the easing timed to coincide with the likes of Sumner, Christmas, Easter etc. It sounds and is shite but it looks like this is where we are heading.

You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing here. Almost universally we are all saying it's a shite state of affairs but ultimately this is the direction UK wide government's seem to be heading. We can all scream "don't do it that way do it my way" but it's hot air, they make the decisions at the end of the day. No one is really disagreeing with you that it would be rotten !

I'm not arguing, I cba doing so as i've got enough to be getting on with. But I just don't see the point in going round in circles.

It isn't sustainable.

Particularly for the economy, as you mention. If there is no certainty that a business will be allowed to trade, people are not going to have confidence in either booking it, or continuing to run it.

Did it really get it down as low as single figures, though, or did we just not test enough and missed the people who weren't sick, but we now look for and say they are? We'll never know.

[dirty dingus]

I think the next stage will be to ask folk not to visit any other household for 2-3 weeks unless you are a carer for someone and ask all those that were shielding to lockdown for a fortnight.

[Thereisalight..]

13 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

Where are all these hoards of people calling for another Lockdown that are being alluded to? 

I don't see them. 

Most people I know are dreading the prospect 

I’m certainly dreading it. Ive had two shifts since lockdown in March. The month previous I buried my Dad. Grieving whilst unable to do or see anyone was incredibly tough.  People may think I’m on here moaning about “wanting the football back”, but to me getting back to seeing live sport again was what was keeping me going. A release from depression brought on by a heartbreaking year. The thought of another lockdown when the days are getting shorter and the weather traditionally gets worse just fills me with dread 

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

I'm not sure that's quite the same as todd's assertion that people, safe in their houses and jobs,  are "actively calling" for another full, UK wide, Lockdown. 

It isn't. But, as you believe they don't exist, you will find some examples of these people here

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

“Hoards of people” clearly.

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

I think the next stage will be to ask folk not to visit any other household for 2-3 weeks unless you are a carer for someone and ask all those that were shielding to lockdown for a fortnight.

Leitch can't do that, as he has repeatedly said in the past it takes 3-4 weeks to see any effect.

2 weeks would be pointless. They would need to put them in place until mid/end October, but we'd not be any further forward than we are now at the end of that.

[John MacLean]

2 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I can't help but feel the Governments (and not just those in the UK) have put their fingers in their ears a bit here. There was time to attempt to address the problems that the first lockdown imposed and get the conversation going about what we might be able to achieve once cases started to rise again, as they always would when contact increased, but this opportunity seems to have passed without progress. 

 

The narrative of "we can beat this virus" was wrong from the outset. We can't beat it without an effective, wildly distributed vaccine. 

The narrative should have been "how do we deal with this, how do we adjust?" We had the New Normal mentioned plenty but no conversation as to what precisely that meant. Take the pubs reopening for example. Great we collectively thought, we're back in the boozers. We're getting back to normal. But the bits about maintaining social distancing and sticking to x number of households was forgotten in our haste to get to the bar . 

We thought it was the Covid World and then back to normal. The fact that there is a fairly large period of, indeterminate, time and constantly changing circumstance between the two has got lost somewhere. 

[Todd_is_God]

12 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

The narrative of "we can beat this virus" was wrong from the outset. We can't beat it without an effective, wildly distributed vaccine. 

Like we've beaten flu?

Vaccines are less effective the older you get. Even with a covid vaccine, unless it fucks off, we will still see people dying with covid.

Most of whom will be from the same category as now.

No doubt this will then magically be deemed as "acceptable" and the media will talk about something else.

The vaccine isn't the big flick of a switch it's being talked up as.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[John MacLean]

6 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I’m certainly dreading it. Ive had two shifts since lockdown in March. The month previous I buried my Dad. Grieving whilst unable to do or see anyone was incredibly tough.  People may think I’m on here moaning about “wanting the football back”, but to me getting back to seeing live sport again was what was keeping me going. A release from depression brought on by a heartbreaking year. The thought of another lockdown when the days are getting shorter and the weather traditionally gets worse just fills me with dread 

I really feel for you in those circumstances. The pain of losing a parent is horrendous at the best of times but to be doing it with the backdrop of this pandemic must be unbearable. 

I totally get how football and live sport is a release. It's been for me previously and hopefully will be again. I wish I had something to say to make you feel better and hopeful moving on. Take care. 

[renton]

Imagine what is being mooted is the Glasgow restrictions rolled out nationally, possibly with an added curfew on business opening hours.

I'll bet for more than two weeks as well. A two week national lockdown does nothing. Surely it's need to be more like 3 to 4. Which doesn't seem viable. The only good reason for a two week lockdown is to try and sort out the mess in testing.

The rate of increase in Glasgow and the West seems to have plateaued, it would naturally take longer to see case loads come down as unlike a 'lockdown' there are still plenty of vectors to spread the disease. The app has only been going a week. The 6/2 still has a way to go. I dunno, on the one hand it feels like they could hold off, on the other restrictions work best and are shorter overall if applied early.

Edited September 18, 2020 by renton

[John MacLean]

13 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

It isn't. But, as you believe they don't exist, you will find some examples of these people here

 

I asked where the "hoards" of people are. 

If I wanted to find where the lunatic fringe can be found I would simply have checked the likes of Twitter and Facebook without your help. 

[Lofarl]

Looks like 2020 is going the the year of blue balls for me.

[John MacLean]

25 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Did it really get it down as low as single figures, though, or did we just not test enough and missed the people who weren't sick, but we now look for and say they are? We'll never know.

You were a big proponent of the view that these figures evidenced the fact that the virus "wasn't as dangerous" any more. 

Remember, this was when you were posting the figures on a daily basis like the football results and with 7 day averages just to keep us better informed. 

Are you now disputing the above? 

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

You were a big proponent of the view that these figures evidenced the fact that the virus "wasn't as dangerous" any more. 

Remember, this was when you were posting the figures on a daily basis like the football results and with 7 day averages just to keep us better informed. 

Are you now disputing the above? 

I'm quite happy that it isn't a threat to public health, yes.

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

I asked where the "hoards" of people are. 

I didn't claim there were "hoards."

You, however, made out that people asking for tighter restrictions didn't really exist.

[Paco]

The rate of increase in Glasgow and the West seems to have plateaued, it would naturally take longer to see case loads come down as unlike a 'lockdown' there are still plenty of vectors to spread the disease.

Has it though? The data coming out of Glasgow right now isn’t as accurate as it was a couple of weeks ago, the Glasgow Airport site is caught in the same mess as the English system. I genuinely don’t know if tests are being restricted in the area as they’ve done in England but that could be another reason. Hopefully, of course, they genuinely are plateauing but I don’t think we can know that for sure with what is publicly available.

We’re getting perilously close to the fabled 5% positivity rate too, Sturgeon seems to pay particular attention to that. Unhindered it looks like we’ll be there in a week at the most.

But, another lockdown like the last one just can’t happen without furlough. I’ve been pretty consistent that I think the government will cave and offer it in some form, probably under a new name, to targeted industries. But what i envisaged as a stop-gap to prevent airlines or large industrial sites like Airbus Broughton laying everyone off will, it appears, need to go into hospitality and leisure as well. It now needs to be essentially furlough but maybe tell office employers to either buy Susan from Admin a laptop or get her to f**k.

This mess is all so avoidable. That’s the most frustrating part.

[Billy Jean King]

Imagine what is being mooted is the Glasgow restrictions rolled out nationally, possibly with an added curfew on business opening hours.
I'll bet for more than two weeks as well. A two week national lockdown does nothing. Surely it's need to be more like 3 to 4. Which doesn't seem viable. The only good reason for a two week lockdown is to try and sort out the mess in testing.
The rate of increase in Glasgow and the West seems to have plateaued, it would naturally take longer to see case loads come down as unlike a 'lockdown' there are still plenty of vectors to spread the disease. The app has only been going a week. The 6/2 still has a way to go. I dunno, on the one hand it feels like they could hold off, on the other restrictions work best and are shorter overall if applied early.

I agree re the 2 weeks but that is how it will be spoon fed to us in attempt to keep the majority onside. It will be extended we all know that. My personal prediction is that if this is to happen it might coincide with English half term next month which there is already talk of extending by a week presumably to cover an initial 2 week announcement. Would give them a perfect initial "window" at least down south but that in turn raises the prospect of it happening sooner up here if the SG decided to go for a similar initial policy.

This is the local Ayr Gold Cup long weekend in Ayrshire and the weather is sensational. Good luck with the "avoid non essential travel" narrative down here, it ain't happening !!!

[Gaz]