Detournement Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, renton said: No, its about how Covid gets counted on death certificates. That, as far as I can tell is variable across trusts and locations. Scotland NRS figures show that deaths from all causes is down in hospitals and up at home, suggesting folk similarly staying away from hospital when they shouldn't. There is only two comparable figures for the UK nations, the positive test figures and the excess death figures. There is only one good, comparable figure internationally and that is excess deaths. Which locations are under counting? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: The overall attitude on here and the opinion polls is that the SNP have done well when it's clear going by international standards they haven't. I don't anyone on here thinks Scotland has done well, just that their communication has been far better than Westminster. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Detournement said: The overall attitude on here and the opinion polls is that the SNP have done well when it's clear going by international standards they haven't. I don't know about opinion polls but it certainly doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Detournement said: Which locations are under counting? In Scotland, the NRS number is, I think 4129. The total Excess deaths for the period is 4496? So 367 deaths in that period where Covid didn't get mentioned on the death certificate. Someone dies of a stroke but if covid gets onto the death certificate, it gets counted in the numbers. In England the equivalent numbers are 42k and 65k How good is the Scottish NHS that only 367 people wouldve died in the last 3 months above the average, but for Covid? Or is it that reporting of Covid on death cerificates inflates that number to near the total excess death numbers in a way that doesn't happen in England. I will repeat: the positive test deaths can be compared across UK nations because they have the same testing threshold for being counted. The excess deaths can be compared internationally for obvious reasons. The NRS/ONS data sets are subject to far more variability in reporting thresholds. On the two data sets you can confidently compare, Scottish mortality is lower. If it makes you feel better, this may have nothing to do with the government. Edited June 26, 2020 by renton 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Do you really think so? Several previously stalwart SNP supporters have been talking about not voting for them based on how things have gone.Yep. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, renton said: In Scotland, the NRS number is, I think 4129. The total Excess deaths for the period is 4496? So 367 deaths in that period where Covid didn't get mentioned on the death certificate. Someone dies of a stroke but if covid gets onto the death certificate, it gets counted in the numbers. In England the equivalent numbers are 42k and 65k How good is the Scottish NHS that only 367 people wouldve died in the last 3 months, but for Covid? Or is it that reporting of Covid on death cerificates inflates that number to near the total excess death numbers in a way that doesn't happen in England. The Scottish excess deaths figure is 4917 according to this BBC article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-52214177 That's around 800 excess deaths so roughly 1 in 5 excess deaths is non Covid related here. I'm not sure what you mean by 'how good'? The figure is excess ie deaths above the mean in previous years (5 I think). We could quite feasibly have had less excess deaths due to the mild weather. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 32 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Good summary of the death stats here. Scotland's done badly but England's done even worse. https://theferret.scot/scotland-covid-19-excess-deaths-rate/ Sadly this seems to be all that matters to quite a lot of folk. It doesn’t matter if we’ve made an arse of things as long as it isn’t as bad as England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 35 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Good summary of the death stats here. Scotland's done badly but England's done even worse. https://theferret.scot/scotland-covid-19-excess-deaths-rate/ That's allright then... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Sadly this seems to be all that matters to quite a lot of folk. It doesn’t matter if we’ve made an arse of things as long as it isn’t as bad as England.Incorrect - people are challenging H_B's bullshit.He is not comparing like with like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, eez-eh said: Sadly this seems to be all that matters to quite a lot of folk. It doesn’t matter if we’ve made an arse of things as long as it isn’t as bad as England. Sad really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Detournement said: The Scottish excess deaths figure is 4917 according to this BBC article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-52214177 That's around 800 excess deaths so roughly 1 in 5 excess deaths is non Covid related here. I'm not sure what you mean by 'how good'? The figure is excess ie deaths above the mean in previous years (5 I think). We could quite feasibly have had less excess deaths due to the mild weather. Well no, England has milder weather than Scotland, generally. Nor does it hold much water that the difference between Scotland's NRS and excess figures and Englands ONS and excess figures down to the latter's health service shutting down, since the NRS figures clearly show the same effects of people staying away from hospital when they probably shouldn't. The simple reason the gap between the ONS and NRS figures and excess deaths is due to reporting thresholds for including covid as a cause of death. That is not an issue with either the positive death rate (a hard and fast test threshold) and excess death rate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, eez-eh said: Sadly this seems to be all that matters to quite a lot of folk. It doesn’t matter if we’ve made an arse of things as long as it isn’t as bad as England. Its an inevitable outcome of splitting decision making under devolution. We didn't really get a choice on when lockdown could happen, or when we could close our borders or even generally where we sourced our advice. So it becomes about how well or not Scotland manages to mitigate stupid decisions made for it, rather than being able to take a holistic view in a grownup fashion of what our nation should've done. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Meanwhile in 'Murica...Vice President Pence : "We have made truly remarkable progress in moving our nation forward...as we stand here today, all 50 states and territories are opening up safely and responsibly"Meanwhile, Florida has just reported almost 9,000 new cases, and bars in Texas are being closed again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 23 minutes ago, eez-eh said: Sadly this seems to be all that matters to quite a lot of folk. It doesn’t matter if we’ve made an arse of things as long as it isn’t as bad as England. Did you miss that all of this is in response to a particular claim that Scotland is doing 'worse' than England? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 3 hours ago, engelbert_humperdink said: Looking at some of the rubbish left on the meadows, I'm assuming dragon soup is the new buckfast. Vile stuff Bucket is in fairly short supply. I was in the shop a few weeks ago and the owner was having a phone conversation with another shop owner who appeared to be beefing him for some as his shop had run out. Separately I heard that deliveries are allocated even before arrival to regular customers/alkies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 3 hours ago, engelbert_humperdink said: Looking at some of the rubbish left on the meadows, I'm assuming dragon soup is the new buckfast. Vile stuff It has been for a while. It seems to be mainly folk who are 25+ who buy Buckie these days, presumably because it's what they drank when they were kids. Dragon Soop is all the rage with the under-agers now. When I worked in an offie, I was forever knocking back the local jakes for trying to buy a few cans with their usual single tin of whatever high-strength cider was cheapest that day. Couldn't be more obvious they'd been tapped up by the local primary kids. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: haha That pub was almost certainly losing its license anyway but still a pleasing turn of events. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 The overall attitude on here and the opinion polls is that the SNP have done well when it's clear going by international standards they haven't. The Scottish excess deaths figure is 4917 according to this BBC article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-52214177 That's around 800 excess deaths so roughly 1 in 5 excess deaths is non Covid related here. I'm not sure what you mean by 'how good'? The figure is excess ie deaths above the mean in previous years (5 I think). We could quite feasibly have had less excess deaths due to the mild weather. You've had an absolute mare here.Do you have the balls to admit you were wrong?That's the sign of a good poster. Shifting the goal posts to "we've still done really badly so why are the Scottish govt being praised" will not go unnoticed. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 25 minutes ago, renton said: Well no, England has milder weather than Scotland, generally. Nor does it hold much water that the difference between Scotland's NRS and excess figures and Englands ONS and excess figures down to the latter's health service shutting down, since the NRS figures clearly show the same effects of people staying away from hospital when they probably shouldn't. The simple reason the gap between the ONS and NRS figures and excess deaths is due to reporting thresholds for including covid as a cause of death. That is not an issue with either the positive death rate (a hard and fast test threshold) and excess death rate. England have decentralised NHS Trusts which I suspect would have been keen to reduce services in the same way that the SNP seem to quite like the idea of reducing schooling. I can recall hearing about doctor's not attending care homes which would obviously have an impact on excess deaths. Are there any examples of reporting thresholds or journalism related to this issue? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, pandarilla said: You've had an absolute mare here. Do you have the balls to admit you were wrong? That's the sign of a good poster. Shifting the goal posts to "we've still done really badly so why are the Scottish govt being praised" will not go unnoticed. What are you talking about? We have recorded the second worst per capita Covid deaths in the world. It's clearly a disaster. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.