Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Turkmenbashi]

5 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Aye but P&B have decided we don't like the "Weird Professor", so anything he says is to be dismissed

Correct

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, mizfit said:

 

 

Dental practices are being forced into one having one dentist, one nurse and one receptionist when they’re scheduled to reopen on the 31st July, so what happens then for the remaining dentists and nurses who can’t work?

 

 

Dental practices will need to improvise.  Our local dentist is an American, he has put up a sign ‘One Yank and it’s out’.

 

[Honest_Man#1]

16 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

You know that there are “excess deaths” due to non-covid reasons? Missed appointments and extra suicides to name two.

 

The two examples you give are COVID-related reasons.

[madwullie]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

There are 3 metrics, though.

The positive test one. The one where it's listed on the death certificate (ie the positive tests + suspected/assumed) and excess deaths.

The cases he is talking about here fall in to the second category, and would show up in the NRS figures.

I know it goes on, but I expect the numbers where this is actually the case are fairly low and are being grossly exaggerated by those trying to make it look like a conspiracy.

Yeah I agree. What I don't get is why the govt would want it to look like there are more people dying from covid than they are. Is it "just" restriction on liberties stuff, because they're taking a pasting from the high figures, and worst in Europe is not a good look however they try to spin it. 

I know the chat in the US is that there is more money for states(hospitals?) when covid is on the death cert, but haven't seen anything suggesting the same for here.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just reading about the Brexit scenario - the UK is hurtling towards December like a very stoppable force. Events, dear boy, events.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Pie and Bovril mobile app

Barnier has said this week that the EU is open to the granting of a two year extension. In my opinion, only a fool would pass up the chance to shelve the inevitable disruption while we get a grip of some sort on the covid-19 situation.

Good job we've got a sensible government who would never think of crashing out just to say they "Got Brexit Done", isn't it?

[Donathan]

Extra suicides are not Covid related?  So what’s the cause?

There are extra suicides due to depression caused by being stuck in lockdown.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Barnier has said this week that the EU is open to the granting of a two year extension. In my opinion, only a fool would pass up the chance to shelve the inevitable disruption while we get a grip of some sort on the covid-19 situation.

Good job we've got a sensible government who would never think of crashing out just to say they "Got Brexit Done", isn't it?

There’s a flaw in this argument.  See if you can spot it.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

There are extra suicides due to depression caused by being stuck in lockdown.

 

And that’s a “non-Covid reason”?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Granny Danger

[Paco]

Yeah I agree. What I don't get is why the govt would want it to look like there are more people dying from covid than they are. Is it "just" restriction on liberties stuff, because they're taking a pasting from the high figures, and worst in Europe is not a good look however they try to spin it. 
I know the chat in the US is that there is more money for states(hospitals?) when covid is on the death cert, but haven't seen anything suggesting the same for here.

The only incentive our government has is to downplay deaths. Which is why they withdrew testing from all but the most ill in hospital through the peak - the bodies that just happened to rack up in care homes and the community at that time were just a coincidence. The ONS has retrospectively caught some of them but this leads to right-wing voices like the Professor ‘hearing’ suitable excuses.

As a result excess deaths is the only method that captures the full picture. Unarguable deaths, with no bias about why they died. Around 65k people more than usual have died in the UK in the last three months. The overwhelming majority of these will be Covid, missing a bowel screening or not checking out that lump doesn’t kill you immediately. There’s no evidence suicides are higher than usual. No hiding place for the government when it comes to this - we’re the worst in the world.

[Donathan]

And that’s a “non-Covid reason”?

correct

[WhiteRoseKillie]

 

You know that there are “excess deaths” due to non-covid reasons? Missed appointments and extra suicides to name two.

It's the increase in excess deaths we're talking about. I'm confident the lockdown has led to many missed appointments, as well as pushing potential suicides to action. Pretty much a covid-19-related reason, if indirect.

 

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

Incorrect

 

Correct.

[Bairnardo]

I have a question about test and protect....

If a key worker tests positive, and the environment they work in means that if their co workers were told to self isolate, their work would have to shut down, what mitigations are in place for that.

And for the avoidance of doubt, the workplace shutting down is not an option that would be entertained by either the business or the Scottish Government

[Billy Jean King]

Cafés, (indoor) pubs and restaurants are a phase 3 opening up here. That gives 9 weeks for us to get through phases 1 and 2. On the current trend that is possible.
England, however, are already on their stage 2, and have an eye on stage 3 on July 4th.
If they do move to stage 3 by then, I imagine there will be no provision for extending the furlough scheme in those sectors in Scotland come August beyond what is currently being suggested i.e. Part-Time work if need be, pay split 60% by govt / min 20% employer

Interestingly SPFL are pitching their restart plan to the SG based us still being in phase 2 on 1 August. Not sure where that steer will have come from.

[Steven W]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Cafés, (indoor) pubs and restaurants are a phase 3 opening up here. That gives 9 weeks for us to get through phases 1 and 2. On the current trend that is possible.
England, however, are already on their stage 2, and have an eye on stage 3 on July 4th.
If they do move to stage 3 by then, I imagine there will be no provision for extending the furlough scheme in those sectors in Scotland come August beyond what is currently being suggested i.e. Part-Time work if need be, pay split 60% by govt / min 20% employer

Interestingly SPFL are pitching their restart plan to the SG based us still being in phase 2 on 1 August. Not sure where that steer will have come from.

I think it was we must be *at least* in phase 2

[madwullie]

24 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

It's the increase in excess deaths we're talking about. I'm confident the lockdown has led to many missed appointments, as well as pushing potential suicides to action. Pretty much a covid-19-related reason, if indirect.

 

Like @Pacosaid above, missed appointment people won't have died yet - neither will those who have found something and not got it checked out.

I see a lot of chat about suicides but having half heartedly looked, I've not seen any evidence that they're dramatically up (not to say they're not). Interesting what @Turkmenbashisaod above about Rome. Went into lockdown early: deaths down on previous years, which would suggest that suicides weren't up a crazy amount on previous years 

[madwullie]

28 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

correct

 

Why is there a lockdown? 

[Billy Jean King]

I think it was we must be *at least* in phase 2

I think we would all be disappointed if not down hearted if we were not. That said Leitch just saying on the briefing to get the notion we will be moving to phase 2 in three weeks out our heads basically. They have set their parameters, they need to ensure they stick to their end of the bargain.

[Todd_is_God]

17 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Cafés, (indoor) pubs and restaurants are a phase 3 opening up here. That gives 9 weeks for us to get through phases 1 and 2. On the current trend that is possible.
England, however, are already on their stage 2, and have an eye on stage 3 on July 4th.
If they do move to stage 3 by then, I imagine there will be no provision for extending the furlough scheme in those sectors in Scotland come August beyond what is currently being suggested i.e. Part-Time work if need be, pay split 60% by govt / min 20% employer

Interestingly SPFL are pitching their restart plan to the SG based us still being in phase 2 on 1 August. Not sure where that steer will have come from.

Worst case scenario maybe?

Better to plan for no spectators then find out limited numbers are allowed than vice versa.

[Todd_is_God]

10 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

17 minutes ago, Steven W said:

I think it was we must be *at least* in phase 2

I think we would all be disappointed if not down hearted if we were not. That said Leitch just saying on the briefing to get the notion we will be moving to phase 2 in three weeks out our heads basically. They have set their parameters, they need to ensure they stick to their end of the bargain.

I think if we are have 7 day averages under 35 cases per day (down from 51/52 today) and still trending down, and 10 deaths per day in 3 weeks time people will be angry at not moving to stage 2, not disappointed.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Todd_is_God