Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Biscuits]

Dunno if this has been posted but the BBC really are lowlife fuckin scumbags

[Paco]

It is truly astonishing that as most countries begin to look at opening up their borders, we start to think about closing them and introducing quarantine.

‘It wouldn’t have made much difference’ appears to be the explanation, but I also recall similar statements about mass events and schools. A lot of back-patting about quarantining flights from Wuhan in early March too, ignoring that the undoubted global hotspot has been New York and you’ve never had any restrictions on flying in from there (and still don’t).

There’s a lot of competition for the craziest act the government have committed but our border policy will end up ranking pretty high.

[Gordon EF]

3 minutes ago, Paco said:

It is truly astonishing that as most countries begin to look at opening up their borders, we start to think about closing them and introducing quarantine.

‘It wouldn’t have made much difference’ appears to be the explanation, but I also recall similar statements about mass events and schools. A lot of back-patting about quarantining flights from Wuhan in early March too, ignoring that the undoubted global hotspot has been New York and you’ve never had any restrictions on flying in from there (and still don’t).

There’s a lot of competition for the craziest act the government have committed but our border policy will end up ranking pretty high.

Agreed. When the dust settles on all of this, the question of why we continued letting people from highly infected areas completely freely into the country without any kind of test or quarantine is going to be an extremely difficult one to answer.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, Mr Tourette said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52715571

Hmm. Who would have thought?

"There were a number of assaults and it was quite clear that as the alcohol flowed, the street parties became closer and they were no longer street parties, and more garden parties - and then eventually front-room parties. And then, as often happens with parties, they were boxing matches."

...and I'll guarantee the same fúckwits were banging their pots and pans the next Thursday. We should maintain the lockdown until these evolutionary dead ends have met their inevitable doom. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm losing patience with the Great British Public and their endless willingness to be manipulated by a flag and a picture of Churchill.

[Biscuits]

Agreed. When the dust settles on all of this, the question of why we continued letting people from highly infected areas completely freely into the country without any kind of test or quarantine is going to be an extremely difficult one to answer.

Only problem is none of the spineless c***s that masquerade as journalists will ask it.

[101]

45 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

I don’t think we can say with any certainty the worst fears were significantly over-estimated. We were very very close to overwhelming the NHS at least in London, and those capacity issues can spread very quickly as patients are kicked around to neighbouring hospitals and regions.

I’ve said this before but the NHS only ‘coped’ in the first place by cancelling all routine surgery, hundreds of thousands of urgent treatments, millions of outpatient appointments, turning operating theatres into ICU beds, football stadiums and conference centres into hospitals and dragging thousands of retired staff back into work. And that’s before we even get into the situation of thousands of care homes patients booted out of hospitals to make space, infecting their care home residents and refusing to admit them back into hospital when they fell ill. It was a success that nobody was denied Covid treatment but we were a bawhair away from that happening, probably only a few days of ‘normality’ away, and millions of other treatments were effectively denied to get there.

We’re at over 60,000 excess deaths in a little over two months, and that’s with the most severe restrictions this country has ever seen. That could’ve risen exponentially if the virus was left to run as it was and capacity was breached. The biggest upper-limit for the full pandemic was put at 500,000, under a ‘do nothing’ model. In reality it was a 250k-500k estimate. Can we really say with any belief that excess deaths wouldn’t have ended in that region in the coming weeks/months under a do nothing model? I don’t think we can. The pandemic isn’t over at this stage.

I don’t think the UK and most of Western Europe had a choice in locking down. Maybe the likes of Czechia and Greece might look at Sweden and wonder if that might’ve been a more pain-free option, and moving forward I think Sweden will effectively be what most countries try to emulate, but unless we made huge steps in February a lockdown was really our only option.

 

All the briefings I have seen have said only elective surgery has been cancelled. No doubt some of these will be of more immediate need than others but urgent treatments are still happening.

Maybe I'm miss interpreting your post but you sound quite critical of the NHS, I think the way they have completely changed their work is incredible, most of the routine surgery that was cancelled was probably going to be for patients who were in the high risk group so shouldn't have attended a hospital anyway. I do worry about cancer screening but hopefully they can get moving again shortly.

I think London was never close to the capacity of their beds by all accounts however they very nearly ran out of staff.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

What on earth are you wittering on about?

Is this going to be another day of rambling pish from you?

If so, I want to make sure I've got enough popcorn in. 

Sorry, I can't make the definition any simpler. Maybe ask a grown-up to explain?

[101]

12 minutes ago, Biscuits said:

 

 

Dunno if this has been posted but the BBC really are lowlife fuckin scumbags

 

Same organisation that suspended Micheal Stewart for an "biased" opinion piece. You won't be surprised to know she is as of this morning still working away.

Edited May 19, 2020 by 101

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

crackers companies are posting the earnings they would've made if it wasn't for that pesky coronavirus so they can hoodwink lenders into giving them bigger loans which won't go badly at all.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/af4c3890-68aa-4f71-a1a6-935cf2fd915a

Does anyone on P&B know of a poster who would like to post imaginary profits for an imaginary business?

[Steven W]

2 minutes ago, 101 said:

Same organisation that suspended Micheal Stewart for an "biased" opinion piece. You won't be surprised to know she is as of this morning still working away.

She's apologised. Said she meant to say 'embraced'.....

[101]

Just now, Steven W said:

She's apologised. Said she meant to say 'embraced'.....

If you're accountable to the Scottish people I think she embraced the role I don't think it's wise to embrace the virus

My biggest bug bear of that report was that it made us sound like we were the only one taking a different stance when in fact it's England that have basically gone "f**k the poor"

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

"There were a number of assaults and it was quite clear that as the alcohol flowed, the street parties became closer and they were no longer street parties, and more garden parties - and then eventually front-room parties. And then, as often happens with parties, they were boxing matches."

...and I'll guarantee the same fúckwits were banging their pots and pans the next Thursday. We should maintain the lockdown until these evolutionary dead ends have met their inevitable doom.

We all laugh at the mad gatherings in America, and there have been scatterings of events across Europe too.

None of which have caused any sort of spike.

I'm not saying that these types of thing should be encouraged at all but they do demonstrate that, actually, large groups of people gathering outdoors doesn't appear very dangerous at all.

It's not at all strange that, throughout this, "the science" has supported exactly what the government have wanted to do, despite this being different to almost everywhere else in the world.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Paco]

All the briefings I have seen have said only elective surgery has been cancelled. No doubt some of these will be of more immediate need than others but urgent treatments are still happening.
Maybe I'm miss interpreting your post but you sound quite critical of the NHS, I think the way they have completely changed their work is incredible, most of the routine surgery that was cancelled was probably going to be for patients who were in the high risk group so shouldn't have attended a hospital anyway. I do worry about cancer screening but hopefully they can get moving again shortly.
I think London was never close to the capacity of their beds by all accounts however they very nearly ran out of staff.

Not critical at all, they’ve done everything they can under truly shite conditions. The choice was stark, cancel most things and prepare for the unknown, or try to carry on as normal and hope for the best. There are examples of hospitals in London, including the one our PM ended up in, completely rearranging their hospital while the PM himself was telling everyone to shake hands.

By ‘urgent treatment’ I was referring mostly to chemotherapy and cancer treatments, effectively those with weak immune systems asked to stay away from hospital. I don’t think they’ve left anyone in absolutely urgent need but plenty treatments for serious diseases have been cancelled. This halt and delay in treatment will kill some people, there are no two ways around that. They’ll go back to a cancelled scan to find a tumour has come back and it’s now inoperable, or the halt in chemo will have meant the cancer has spread, etc. All I was really illustrating is that the NHS may well have ‘coped’ in the sense we didn’t have a Lombardy scenario, but the human cost of that is massive and as yet, unknown.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

45 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

He’s making a point that is so simple to understand that only a moron would have a problem comprehending it.

IMO it’s also a valid point.  It’s a sad reality that many folk with a few pounds seem to think that their interests are best served by those whose constituency is the mega rich.

 

I'll guarantee you Oaksoft's BP would go through the roof if you described him as Working Class.

I've made the point to Senior Governors and above that, even when they approach the brass ring of a six-figure CS salary, they are still closer to the poor fuckers in shop doorways than they have with the Ministers whose policies they have to implement. As income rises, so often do outgoings, as one feels one has to dress, drive and live according to ones station. This leads to further indebtedness, and even tighter entanglement in the system.

Then you die, and are replaced - without a blink, or even a second thought.

[101]

Just now, Paco said:

 

Not critical at all, they’ve done everything they can under truly shite conditions. The choice was stark, cancel most things and prepare for the unknown, or try to carry on as normal and hope for the best. There are examples of hospitals in London, including the one our PM ended up in, completely rearranging their hospital while the PM himself was telling everyone to shake hands.

By ‘urgent treatment’ I was referring mostly to chemotherapy and cancer treatments, effectively those with weak immune systems asked to stay away from hospital. I don’t think they’ve left anyone in absolutely urgent need but plenty treatments for serious diseases have been cancelled. This halt and delay in treatment will kill some people, there are no two ways around that. They’ll go back to a cancelled scan to find a tumour has come back and it’s now inoperable, or the halt in chemo will have meant the cancer has spread, etc. All I was really illustrating is that the NHS may well have ‘coped’ in the sense we didn’t have a Lombardy scenario, but the human cost of that is massive and as yet, unknown.

 

A guy I work with has a rare cancer and has still been going in for CT scans to keep an eye on it, hopefully this is the case for most people and if things start to get worse they can intervene.

[Wee Willie]

This is from a Canadian newspaper called The Star

70 cases of COVID-19 at French schools days after re-opening

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/europe/2020/05/18/70-cases-of-covid-19-at-french-schools-days-after-re-opening.html?fbclid=IwAR1lx0O7tERqHUiP38rmv3nAUoDo7XtWRFG8TCLVx1t45ady9l3mnW9kFgo

PARIS - Just one week after a third of French schoolchildren went back to school in an easing of the coronavirus lockdown, there has been a worrying flareup of about 70 COVID-19 cases linked to schools, the government said Monday.

Some lower grades in schools were opened last week and a further 150,000 junior high students went back to the classroom Monday as further restrictions were loosened by the government. The move initially spelled relief: the end of homeschooling for hundreds of thousands of exhausted French parents, many of whom were also working from home.

But French Education minister Jean-Michel Blanquer sounded the alarm Monday, telling French radio RTL that the return has put some children in new danger of infection. He said the affected schools are being closed immediately. French media reported that seven schools in northern France were closed.

The situation highlights the precarious situation the French government finds itself in as it seeks both to reassure the public that the country is moving forward past coronavirus and to react prudently to safeguard public health.

Blanquer did not specify if the 70 cases of COVID-19 were among students or teachers. Given that the incubation period for the virus is several days, people are “likely” to have been infected before the reopening of the schools, he said.

France reopened about 40,000 preschools and primary schools last week, with classes capped at 15 students. About 30% of children went back to school, Blanquer said. The government has allowed parents to keep children at home.

This week France is reopening junior high schools in regions less affected by the virus, which do not include Paris.

Although the idea of children being silent “super-spreaders” has been largely debunked in recent analyses, last week France recorded its first death of a child linked to Kawasaki disease, a mysterious inflammatory syndrome that some doctors say could be triggered by COVID-19. The 9-year-old boy in Marseille was one of 125 children in France currently with the syndrome.

French authorities have reported at least 142,411 people infected with the coronavirus and 28,108 deaths.

In neighbouring Germany, schools have been slowly opening to various degrees for about two weeks now, subject to precautions.

No major outbreaks related to the reopenings have been reported, though there have been many individual cases. In Berlin’s Spandau neighbourhood, one school was ordered temporarily closed at the weekend after it emerged that a teacher with COVID-19 had contact with two elementary classes, an after-school care program and other teachers.

A teacher from another school in the area also tested positive, but only had contact with a small number of children. Those individuals were ordered into quarantine but the school has remained open, the BZ newspaper reported on Monday. In the surrounding state of Brandenburg two kindergartens were closed and a fifth-grade class at an elementary school were quarantined.

 

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

What on earth are you wittering on about?

Is this going to be another day of rambling pish from you?

If so, I want to make sure I've got enough popcorn in. 

see below

16 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Sorry, I can't make the definition any simpler. Maybe ask a grown-up to explain?

Now that's funny

13 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Does anyone on P&B know of a poster who would like to post imaginary profits for an imaginary business?

Can I have a guess?

see above

[WhiteRoseKillie]

14 minutes ago, Biscuits said:

17 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Agreed. When the dust settles on all of this, the question of why we continued letting people from highly infected areas completely freely into the country without any kind of test or quarantine is going to be an extremely difficult one to answer.

Only problem is none of the spineless c***s that masquerade as journalists will ask it.

Oh, there will be some - just not the "Big Beasts" like Peston and Kuenssberg, or the Establishment-dependent outlets like the Beeb or Sky. Unfortunately, these same outlets will decry the efforts of real journalists as part of their aim of retaining their position.

Watch Al Jazeera, RT, Euronews. Read The Canary, Guardian, Morning Star, Skwawkbox. Also read the mainstream stuff such as the Times, Telegraph, Mail, Express. Then ask yourself where they get their info, who the story benefits, who profits from a certain narrative...

The truth is normally out there, but the spinning of facts seasoned with supposition and prejudice can change a story out of all recognition to serve a predetermined narrative. A single source, of whatever stripe, rarely gives the whole picture. The latest example is the Heil on Sunday's "exposure" of Keir Starmer's field.

[welshbairn]

After warnings from over here, NY and LA confirming that children might not be as safe as was thought.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/145-nyc-kids-have-rare-kawasaki-like-disease-linked-to-coronavirus/

https://abc7.com/coronavirus-in-kids-kawasaki-disease-mysterious-illness-children/6193974/

Edited May 19, 2020 by welshbairn

[WhiteRoseKillie]

26 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

We all laugh at the mad gatherings in America, and there have been scatterings of events across Europe too.

None of which have caused any sort of spike.

I'm not saying that these types of thing should be encouraged at all but they do demonstrate that, actually, large groups of people gathering outdoors doesn't appear very dangerous at all.

It's not at all strange that, throughout this, "the science" has supported exactly what the government have wanted to do, despite this being different to almost everywhere else in the world.

I'm not sure that a gathering like this would cause an appreciable variation, but it's the general attitude of exceptionalism, where these people are convinced that the virus couldn't possibly affect them, 'cos reasons, that pisses me off.

It may not make a difference directly, but it sets a poor example and lessens public willingness to comply with restrictions. Unless a good dozen of them could be shown getting intubated as a result of mixing so freely and closely.

Would I be correct in detecting a wee bit of sarcasm in your last sentence? I can only assume the likes of Whitty and Harries have got assurances of a decent pay-off, becuse their professional reputations must be fucked by now.

Edited May 19, 2020 by WhiteRoseKillie