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Crùbag

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On 18/02/2020 at 06:38, sportsterx said:

 Not true, Churchill did want a reunified Ireland, but, as part of the British empire.

 

But that's a no go for Dublin , Churchill had a history of ridiculing and trashing Ireland, also his Black and tans and his refusal to take responsibility for the Gallipoli disaster , were thousands of Irish were slaughtered.

IIRC Churchill really did not like Ireland being neutral during the war and offered the North up as a sop to get them in.

However given the recent history there was no way De Valera could go for it.

At best Ireland was neutral in a way that leaned towards the Allies.  Downed British pilots where repatriated but German ones were not.

16,000 Irish citizens voluteered to fight the Germans and the two secret services worked closely together though secretly at that.

Also a weather station in Ireland advised when D-Day could go ahead.

Nonetheless De Valera still sent his condolences to the German ambassador concerning the death of Hitler.

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On 17 February 2020 at 22:32, alta-pete said:

Interesting flight of fancy piece in yesterday’s Sunday Times about how reunification wouldn’t be an entirely outlandish idea on Boris’s watch but equally how Dublin really doesn’t want it back. 

Basic premise was Churchill (Boris’s hero) tried to give Ulster away to Dublin a couple of times but couldn’t persuade them to take it.

It now costs £11bn to run for 1.5m people who have no strategic or economic benefit to the wider U.K.  and who are overwhelmingly anti-Brexit. No real upsides for Westminster in working hard to keep it. And the pesky Irish Sea border problem with the EU would also be solved because there actually would become a border in the Irish Sea. 

But then, from the Irish perspective, it’d mean each southern taxpayer having to fork out an extra £1700 a skull in taxes just to maintain the status quo in the Province when the south have far more pressing issues to deal with in their public finances. And then what would they do with all those unruly Protestants who would feel that they had been sold out and likely cause a fair old kerfuffle? 
 

Conclusion seemed to be the Province is currently a bit of a nobody’s child. 

Re-unification might never happen but it's even money there will be a Sinn Fein First Minister in NI this decade.

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On 14/02/2020 at 17:09, Jacksgranda said:

The PR system will make sure they don't do a UKIP. Whatever transpires in the attempt to form/maintain a government and then the fallout from the inability to form/maintain a government and how that is spun to pin the blame elsewhere will help to determine how Sinn Fein do in any subsequent election.

Also, if they do go into government, how much experience do they have among their TDs? They will be under intense scrutiny from a sceptical media. Sinn Fein will have to change their mantra about it all being the fault of the British government. And they'll have to take their begging bowl to Brussels now instead of London.

In the event of a subsequent election have they sufficient candidates of the required calibre to be in government?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51570507

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2 hours ago, MixuFixit said:


Have they ever done that?

But what are their options? Option 1 - let SF form a wafer thin majority via a coalition of dozens, frustrate it from carrying out their manifesto and wait for a collapse and hope to get elected next time?  But the public aren't daft and they don't like silly games frustrating the election winners (ref.  UK Parliament 2017-2019). And, of course, SF might do enough right to get re-elected with a clear majority next time.

Option 2  bite the bullet form a FG/FF/+1 coalition now, hope that the SF vote was largely a protest vote that melts away and  postpone worrying  about what to do at the next election until the next election? I don't know much about RoI politics but I think I know enough about human nature to think that option 2 is a big possibility, however difficult it is for FF/FG to swallow.

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On 19/02/2020 at 18:02, Fullerene said:

IIRC Churchill really did not like Ireland being neutral during the war and offered the North up as a sop to get them in.

However given the recent history there was no way De Valera could go for it.

At best Ireland was neutral in a way that leaned towards the Allies.  Downed British pilots where repatriated but German ones were not.

16,000 Irish citizens voluteered to fight the Germans and the two secret services worked closely together though secretly at that.

Also a weather station in Ireland advised when D-Day could go ahead.

Nonetheless De Valera still sent his condolences to the German ambassador concerning the death of Hitler.

On a football note, this is a football forum after all 😄 The reason zee Germans wear a Green 2nd kit is because the Irish were the first to play them after the war. 

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9 minutes ago, Bohemian said:

On a football note, this is a football forum after all 😄 The reason zee Germans wear a Green 2nd kit is because the Irish were the first to play them after the war. 

Reconciliation is great. The prior cosying up to The Third Reich was not so great.

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Didn't know whether to post in this thread or the one on BBC Bias. Just watched the film Ronin on Netflix. The end voice-over purporting to be from BBC World Service, referred to the peace agreement between the Protestant majority of the British-ruled enclave and the Irish Resistance. That may be the view of many Irish-Americans, but its surely not endorsed by any branch of the BBC.  Anyway the film was rank (no pun intended).

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