Ireland

[Bohemian]

5 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Funny how conservative Ireland is, it's like Scotland is the only left wing country around here.

 

Also, Isn't it usually the right wingers have links to violent groups, more or less.

but this time it is them from the left (SF) who have links to these people and them political peoples on the right (FF & FG) don't like the violent people. 

 

FF and FG are hardly far right wingers mate  Right of center I think they would be classed. I'm sure left wing leaning groups etc down the years would of used violence. The more right and left you go is when the nutters join in.

[welshbairn]

19 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Funny how conservative Ireland is, it's like Scotland is the only left wing country around here.

 

Also, Isn't it usually the right wingers have links to violent groups, more or less.

but this time it is them from the left (SF) who have links to these people and them political peoples on the right (FF & FG) don't like the violent people. 

 

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA in the 1960s.

Edited February 13, 2020 by welshbairn

[Bohemian]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA.

I'm always surprised SF dont throw that in their face when FF are scoring political points off SFs connection to the IRA.

[John Lambies Doos]

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA in the 1960s.

Ffs, different times m8.

[welshbairn]

27 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

37 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA in the 1960s.

Ffs, different times m8.

Maybe so, but he probably pocketed most of the cash anyway, he was corrupt as f**k. Apparently the annual maintenance of his various properties cost more than his lifetime's declared earnings.  

Edited February 13, 2020 by welshbairn

[Bohemian]

26 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Maybe so, but he probably pocketed most of the cash anyway, he was corrupt as f**k. Apparently the annual maintenance of his various properties cost more than his lifetime's declared earnings.  

Political corruption personified, absolute gangster. 

[Bohemian]

 

• • THE42

Image: Sam Boal

Micheál Martin 'can't rule out another general election' after rejecting talks with Sinn Féin

Micheál Martin told a parliamentary party meeting that principles can’t change overnight.

 

6 hours ago 95,260 369

Updated 2 hours ago

FIANNA FÁIL LEADER Michéal Martin has said he “can’t rule out another general election” after he rejected speaking to Sinn Féin as part of government formation.  

Martin confirmed the position this evening following the first Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting since Saturday’s general election.

Martin had been under pressure from some quarters to engage with Sinn Féin on coalition talks but he said that his party is united behind the opinion that it will not discuss a programme for government with Sinn Féin. 

Martin said he came to this view after speaking with party members who felt that “the economic platform that Sinn Féin put forward in the election was irreconcilable with Fianna Fáil.

“Particularly on the enterprise agenda and also in terms of its financial sustainability..

Yada yada yada...

 

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA in the 1960s.

Only for his own enrichment. That was good old fashioned corruption.  He wasn't a terrorist or anything like that.

[John Lambies Doos]

Only for his own enrichment. That was good old fashioned corruption.  He wasn't a terrorist or anything like that.

Sure Bertie Ahern never had a bank account, even when he was Taoiseach.[emoji849]
I got one when I was 5yrs old and got a free sportsbag.
Obviously Bertie didn't like sportsbags..[emoji848]

[Tutankhamen]

5 hours ago, Bohemian said:

Yes the Greens would most definitely, they'd go in with anyone to be honest. The last time they went in with FF they were absolutely obliterated but I dont think that would stop them again.

FF/FG/Greens most likely... FF/FG slowly morphing into the same party, well I reckon that's what the Irish public will see.

Nothing new about the end of Civil War politics. Remember the Progressive Democrats that were some Irish version of the 1989s UK SDP. Hung around for years because of the voting system then disappeared into oblivion. For all Fine Gael were right wing Irish Thatcherites when it came to money, they were the first to open up on social issues way before the Irish public caught up. In fact the the majority of the public only became liberal on social issues after the Church completely and openly disgraced itself.

[Crùbag]

12 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

12 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA in the 1960s.

Ffs, different times m8.

True, point being though is that FG, FF and SF are all nationalist parties who would like to see Ireland re-united.

[Pet Jeden]

13 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

14 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Charlie Haughey (FF leader and Taoiseach)  supplied arms to the IRA in the 1960s.

Ffs, different times m8.

So, what you are saying is "let bygones be bygones and just let's look forwards". In Ireland??

[welshbairn]

 

[Jacksgranda]

32 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

2011 +50%

2016 +50%

2020 + 61%

Do that in the next election and they'll have 36%, which would translate into approx 57 seats.

 

[The_Kincardine]

18 hours ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

Also, Isn't it usually the right wingers have links to violent groups, more or less.

This is a point I am interested in, too.  I'd love some feedback from the blokes who know much more about Irish politics than I so I'm polling @Jacksgrandaand @John Lambies Dooson two questions:

1.  Do you think that there is still a relationship between the IRA and Sinn Fein?  I get most of my news from Radio 4 and The Spectator and the latter has suggested a few times lately that SF is still controlled by some sort of spooky IRA council.  Is this just bollocks?

2.  Did Leo just take his eye off the day job?  Wee Varadkar has been running about Brussels for the past three years saying how toxic Brexit is and has been (I think) used by the EU.  OTOH he comes across as a smart and articulate bloke.  If he'd kept his hand on the tiller would FG have had such an abject electoral result or is he really best suited to being an EU shill?

[Jacksgranda]

10 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

This is a point I am interested in, too.  I'd love some feedback from the blokes who know much more about Irish politics than I so I'm polling @Jacksgrandaand @John Lambies Dooson two questions:

1.  Do you think that there is still a relationship between the IRA and Sinn Fein?  I get most of my news from Radio 4 and The Spectator and the latter has suggested a few times lately that SF is still controlled by some sort of spooky IRA council.  Is this just bollocks?

2.  Did Leo just take his eye off the day job?  Wee Varadkar has been running about Brussels for the past three years saying how toxic Brexit is and has been (I think) used by the EU.  OTOH he comes across as a smart and articulate bloke.  If he'd kept his hand on the tiller would FG have had such an abject electoral result or is he really best suited to being an EU shill?

1/ Yes

2/ Brexit was a bigger deal for the RoI than most of the (Irish) electorate understood. Varadkar did his job for Ireland, however it took up a lot of his time, and he has perhaps paid the price for being unable to concentrate on bread and butter issues. But he'll go far in Brussels, elected or otherwise...

Over to JLD and @Bohemian

ETA: I don't actually know a lot about Irish politics, I'd be hard pressed to name any high fliers other than the (big) 3 party leaders + Simon Coveney, never mind articulate the difference in their policies. I just glean information from the BBC news website, listening to Radio Ulster, reading the News Letter (semi regularly) and my occasional glances at the Irish News and Irish Times.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Jacksgranda

[Bohemian]

46 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

This is a point I am interested in, too.  I'd love some feedback from the blokes who know much more about Irish politics than I so I'm polling @Jacksgrandaand @John Lambies Dooson two questions:

1.  Do you think that there is still a relationship between the IRA and Sinn Fein?  I get most of my news from Radio 4 and The Spectator and the latter has suggested a few times lately that SF is still controlled by some sort of spooky IRA council.  Is this just bollocks?

2.  Did Leo just take his eye off the day job?  Wee Varadkar has been running about Brussels for the past three years saying how toxic Brexit is and has been (I think) used by the EU.  OTOH he comes across as a smart and articulate bloke.  If he'd kept his hand on the tiller would FG have had such an abject electoral result or is he really best suited to being an EU shill?

1. Yes very much so, but how active the old provos are I'm not sure.. SF have no control over the new splinter groups and are considered targets by them. 

2. Leo just lost touch with the ordinary person on the street. A poll was done during the election an 1% said brexit was an issue. The election was about housing, health and crime, Leo failed miserably an all 3

[The_Kincardine]

1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

 

2/ Brexit was a bigger deal for the RoI than most of the (Irish) electorate understood. Varadkar did his job for Ireland, however it took up a lot of his time, and he has perhaps paid the price for being unable to concentrate on bread and butter issues. But he'll go far in Brussels, elected or otherwise...

 

10 minutes ago, Bohemian said:

 

2. Leo just lost touch with the ordinary person on the street. A poll was done during the election an 1% said brexit was an issue. The election was about housing, health and crime, Leo failed miserably an all 3

Good replies from the pair of you.  Thanks.  So is this a real game-changer for SF/Irish politics or a David Steel "prepare for government" flash in the pan?

Edit:  I expect the PR system will play as much a part as political will so there's likely to be no real answer.

Edited February 14, 2020 by The_Kincardine

[Jacksgranda]

8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

Good replies from the pair of you.  Thanks.  So is this a real game-changer for SF/Irish politics or a David Steel "prepare for government" flash in the pan?

The PR system will make sure they don't do a UKIP. Whatever transpires in the attempt to form/maintain a government and then the fallout from the inability to form/maintain a government and how that is spun to pin the blame elsewhere will help to determine how Sinn Fein do in any subsequent election.

Also, if they do go into government, how much experience do they have among their TDs? They will be under intense scrutiny from a sceptical media. Sinn Fein will have to change their mantra about it all being the fault of the British government. And they'll have to take their begging bowl to Brussels now instead of London.

In the event of a subsequent election have they sufficient candidates of the required calibre to be in government?

[John Lambies Doos]

So, what you are saying is "let bygones be bygones and just let's look forwards". In Ireland??

During the 70s and 80s there were horrific atrocities on both sides. Gladly most of that is behind us so , yes we should look forward