Crùbag Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Needs a thread on it's own. Esp with the Wolfe Tones at Number 1 in Ireland and UK. Who saw that coming? A wee history lesson for some Brits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) Do people still buy singles? Looks from this that the Wolfe Tones song has a competitive advantage. Edited January 9, 2020 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51035886 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Thought the reason for the Black and Tans was that too many of the RIC were resigning. Most of them were ordinary policemen trying to stop and punish non political crime. Seems a bit of triumphalism to still have a go at them a century later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Thought the reason for the Black and Tans was that too many of the RIC were resigning. Most of them were ordinary policemen trying to stop and punish non political crime. Seems a bit of triumphalism to still have a go at them a century later. Or being murdered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: Or being murdered. Quite, but no doubt they did a fair bit of that themselves, difficult times. Just seems a bit daft to make it an issue when a Border Poll might be a possibility in the next few years or decades, not the best way to reassure Northerners that old enmities would be forgotten in a United Ireland. Edited January 9, 2020 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Quite, but no doubt they did a fair bit of that themselves, difficult times. Just seems a bit daft to make it an issue when a Border Poll might be a possibility in the next few years or decades, not the best way to reassure Northerners that old enmities would be forgotten in a United Ireland. I think that was Varadkar's point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Quite, but no doubt they did a fair bit of that themselves, ... Because that fits the mythology? The RIC was largely Roman Catholic and was recruited from right across the island rather than locally within any particular county so many within its ranks would have had Irish nationalist sympathies and would have had no huge appetite for doing that sort of thing. That's kind of why a lot of them were resigning in addition to the intimidation from Republicans angle that Jacksgranda mentioned. The Ulster Unionist Party had to set up a Special Constabulary (what was later referred to as the B Specials) drawn largely from former members of Sir Edward Carson's UVF to have a secuity apparatus for Northern Ireland that it actually trusted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Thought the reason for the Black and Tans was that too many of the RIC were resigning. Most of them were ordinary policemen trying to stop and punish non political crime. Seems a bit of triumphalism to still have a go at them a century later. The destruction of much of Cork and killings by Auxiliaries and B&Ts, in retaliation to an IRA murder still is a sore point with many Nationalists. The B&T recruits were in large number ex-troops from the British army who were left without a job after the end of the Great War. It was at best naive of Vardakar and Fine Gael to expect opposition parties and some of those with no political allegiances to meekly accept the commemoration ceremony planned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, Dundee Hibernian said: The destruction of much of Cork and killings by Auxiliaries and B&Ts, in retaliation to an IRA murder still is a sore point with many Nationalists. The B&T recruits were in large number ex-troops from the British army who were left without a job after the end of the Great War. It was at best naive of Vardakar and Fine Gael to expect opposition parties and some of those with no political allegiances to meekly accept the commemoration ceremony planned. Maybe they did it on purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Or being murdered.The auxillary RIC and the Black and Tans murdered and sexually assaulted more women in Ireland during the war of independence than the IRA did during that time period. Utter scum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Just now, Jacksgranda said: Maybe they did it on purpose. I think that is a very good point: in the same way some suspect the upper echelons of the SNP are not wanting to take the big step towards Independence, Vardakar perhaps views Unification as a path fraught with too many difficulties at this point in time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said: The destruction of much of Cork and killings by Auxiliaries and B&Ts, in retaliation to an IRA murder still is a sore point with many Nationalists. The B&T recruits were in large number ex-troops from the British army who were left without a job after the end of the Great War. It was at best naive of Vardakar and Fine Gael to expect opposition parties and some of those with no political allegiances to meekly accept the commemoration ceremony planned. It wasn't meant to a commemeration of the B&Ts and Auxiliaries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said: Or being murdered. The auxillary RIC and the Black and Tans murdered and sexually assaulted more women in Ireland during the war of independence than the IRA did during that time period. Utter scum Meanwhile Fine Gael seem to have wanted to commemorate the mainstream RIC that had nothing to do with that and the Dublin Metropolitan Police, so people are getting their wires crossed on this, but it shouldn't exactly be a shock that would be what would happen so the truth is out there on Fine Gael's motivations basically... Edited January 9, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Meanwhile Fine Gael seem to have wanted to commemorate the mainstream RIC that had nothing to do with that and the dublin Metropolitan Police, so people are getting their wires crossed on this, but it shouldn't exactly be a shock that would be what would happen so the truth is out there on Fine Gael's motivations basically...Mainstream RIC were predominantly Irish Catholic. UK govt believed they were out of their depth hence the introduction of ancillary RIC (Anglo Irish) and Black and Tans. Most mainstream RIC either resigned or became double agents. Black and Tans were abhorrent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) Agree with most of that, but the second last sentence is off a bit from what I understand. The UK government requested that former police officers from pre-partion Ireland be hired by forces across the Empire so the younger ones including many Roman Catholics that didn't have enough years served for a pension and couldn't easily resign often wound up emigrating and being hired elsewhere. Edited January 9, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It wasn't meant to a commemeration of the B&Ts and Auxiliaries. The Auxilliaries were a covert type group within the RIC, comprising ex British Army officers in the main. The B&Ts were low ranked ex-British soldiers from areas of high employment in England, recruited into the RIC as simple constables. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 There's the perception that the Irish state is commemorating/ celebrating the RIC. There are also those who see the RIC as being instrumental in suppressing the struggle for independence even though they were generally less brutal than the Black and Tans and Auxilliries. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ric-commemoration-not-appropriate-victims-descendant-1.4132040 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Quite enjoy a pint of Black and Tan now and then. Rum and pep chaser as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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