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Esp with the Wolfe Tones at Number 1 in Ireland and UK. Who saw that coming? A wee history lesson for some Brits.

 

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Do people still buy singles? Looks from this that the Wolfe Tones song has a competitive advantage.

 

Edited by welshbairn

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Thought the reason for the Black and Tans was that too many of the RIC were resigning. Most of them were ordinary policemen trying to stop and punish non political crime. Seems a bit of triumphalism to still have a go at them a century later.

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4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Thought the reason for the Black and Tans was that too many of the RIC were resigning. Most of them were ordinary policemen trying to stop and punish non political crime. Seems a bit of triumphalism to still have a go at them a century later.

Or being murdered.

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8 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Or being murdered.

Quite, but no doubt they did a fair bit of that themselves, difficult times. Just seems a bit daft to make it an issue when a Border Poll might be a possibility in the next few years or decades, not the best way to reassure Northerners that old enmities would be forgotten in a United Ireland.

Edited by welshbairn

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7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Quite, but no doubt they did a fair bit of that themselves, difficult times. Just seems a bit daft to make it an issue when a Border Poll might be a possibility in the next few years or decades, not the best way to reassure Northerners that old enmities would be forgotten in a United Ireland.

I think that was Varadkar's point.

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35 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Quite, but no doubt they did a fair bit of that themselves, ...

Because that fits the mythology? The RIC was largely Roman Catholic and was recruited from right across the island rather than locally within any particular county so many within its ranks would have had Irish nationalist sympathies and would have had no huge appetite for doing that sort of thing. That's kind of why a lot of them were resigning in addition to the intimidation from Republicans angle that Jacksgranda mentioned. The Ulster Unionist Party had to set up a Special Constabulary (what was later referred to as the B Specials) drawn largely from former members of Sir Edward Carson's UVF to have a secuity apparatus for Northern Ireland that it actually trusted.

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1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Thought the reason for the Black and Tans was that too many of the RIC were resigning. Most of them were ordinary policemen trying to stop and punish non political crime. Seems a bit of triumphalism to still have a go at them a century later.

The destruction of much of Cork and killings by Auxiliaries and B&Ts,  in retaliation to an IRA murder still is a sore point with many Nationalists. The B&T recruits were in large number ex-troops from the British army who were left without a job after the end of the Great War.

 

It was at best naive of Vardakar  and Fine Gael to expect opposition parties and some of those with no political allegiances to meekly accept the commemoration ceremony planned. 

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Just now, Dundee Hibernian said:

The destruction of much of Cork and killings by Auxiliaries and B&Ts,  in retaliation to an IRA murder still is a sore point with many Nationalists. The B&T recruits were in large number ex-troops from the British army who were left without a job after the end of the Great War.

 

It was at best naive of Vardakar  and Fine Gael to expect opposition parties and some of those with no political allegiances to meekly accept the commemoration ceremony planned

Maybe they did it on purpose.

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Or being murdered.
The auxillary RIC and the Black and Tans murdered and sexually assaulted more women in Ireland during the war of independence than the IRA did during that time period. Utter scum

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Just now, Jacksgranda said:

Maybe they did it on purpose.

I think that is a very good point: in the same way some suspect the upper echelons of the SNP are not wanting to take the big step towards Independence, Vardakar perhaps views Unification as a path fraught with too many difficulties at this point in time.

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3 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

The destruction of much of Cork and killings by Auxiliaries and B&Ts,  in retaliation to an IRA murder still is a sore point with many Nationalists. The B&T recruits were in large number ex-troops from the British army who were left without a job after the end of the Great War.

 

It was at best naive of Vardakar  and Fine Gael to expect opposition parties and some of those with no political allegiances to meekly accept the commemoration ceremony planned. 

It wasn't meant to a commemeration of the B&Ts and Auxiliaries.

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3 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:
1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:
Or being murdered.

The auxillary RIC and the Black and Tans murdered and sexually assaulted more women in Ireland during the war of independence than the IRA did during that time period. Utter scum

Meanwhile Fine Gael seem to have wanted to commemorate the mainstream RIC that had nothing to do with that and the Dublin Metropolitan Police, so people are getting their wires crossed on this, but it shouldn't exactly be a shock that would be what would happen so the truth is out there on Fine Gael's motivations basically...

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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Meanwhile Fine Gael seem to have wanted to commemorate the mainstream RIC that had nothing to do with that and the dublin Metropolitan Police, so people are getting their wires crossed on this, but it shouldn't exactly be a shock that would be what would happen so the truth is out there on Fine Gael's motivations basically...
Mainstream RIC were predominantly Irish Catholic. UK govt believed they were out of their depth hence the introduction of ancillary RIC (Anglo Irish) and Black and Tans. Most mainstream RIC either resigned or became double agents. Black and Tans were abhorrent

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Agree with most of that, but the second last sentence is off a bit from what I understand. The UK government requested that former police officers from pre-partion Ireland be hired by forces across the Empire so the younger ones including many Roman Catholics that didn't have enough years served for a pension and couldn't easily resign often wound up emigrating and being hired elsewhere.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It wasn't meant to a commemeration of the B&Ts and Auxiliaries.

The Auxilliaries were a covert type group within the RIC, comprising ex British Army officers in the main. The B&Ts were low ranked ex-British soldiers from areas of high employment in England, recruited into the RIC as simple constables.

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There's the perception that the Irish state is commemorating/ celebrating the RIC.

There are also those who see the RIC as being instrumental in suppressing the struggle for independence even though they were generally less brutal than the Black and Tans and Auxilliries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ric-commemoration-not-appropriate-victims-descendant-1.4132040

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