Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Matt Stoller asked an interesting thing that I didn't know the answer to: why does America have such a rage boner for Iran? Yes they humiliated them in the 70s but so did Vietnam and now relations are relatively normal there. What's different about Iran? Especially now the USA is independent of Middle East oil. Vietnam hasn't as much oil? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Matt Stoller asked an interesting thing that I didn't know the answer to: why does America have such a rage boner for Iran? Yes they humiliated them in the 70s but so did Vietnam and now relations are relatively normal there. What's different about Iran? Especially now the USA is independent of Middle East oil. Have you ever heard of the Wolfowitz Doctrine? Israel has considered Iran a threat for a long time and is terrified the Iranians will get the bomb. Most of the other threats to Israeli security have been neutralised or destabilised. Additionally Israel and AIPAC have a huge influence in America, and it personally benefits Trump to take on Iran. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 9 hours ago, coprolite said: ...but it's really only since Kosovo that humanitarian grounds have been put forward as the actual grounds for intervention. Sounded better than having it referred to as the War of Clinton's BJ given it was mainly about diverting attention from Monica Lewinsky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: A reason in the 80s but not now the USA can economically extract shale oil Aye, well, better safe than sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Ehhh again though the motivation there is because Israel is a safe place to land planes when they wanted power to access oil, which isn't relevant anymore. That said, shale is more expensive to extract, so making crude harder to market in the middle East is still served by that strategy. This applies to Saudi as well though, who have deliberately tried to crash crude prices to make shale uneconomical, yet the USA doesn't attack here. The US has plenty of bases in the Middle East - https://www.americansecurityproject.org/national-security-strategy/u-s-bases-in-the-middle-east/ The idea that Israel has benefited the US is arrant nonsense, the reverse is true. Also look how the USA responded to the USS Liberty incident to see the sort of power Israel has in America. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: You missed out the Ottoman Empire. DFS? Whatever, I find it fkn scary. Edited January 5, 2020 by cyderspaceman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Matt Stoller asked an interesting thing that I didn't know the answer to: why does America have such a rage boner for Iran? Yes they humiliated them in the 70s but so did Vietnam and now relations are relatively normal there. What's different about Iran? Especially now the USA is independent of Middle East oil. They need to start a fight with Iran so that when their allies join in (Saudi, Israel) they can sell them all the rockets they need. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Threatening to attack Iranian cultural targets now.Yep, that will calm things down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, D.A.F.C said: Threatening to attack Iranian cultural targets now. Yep, that will calm things down. Trump's not trying to calm things down...he's trying to provoke a war, silly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ralstonite said: Trump's not trying to calm things down...he's trying to provoke a war, silly. And we're on the same page! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/05/britain-sympathetic-to-us-over-killing-of-qassem-suleimani 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, MixuFixit said: Matt Stoller asked an interesting thing that I didn't know the answer to: why does America have such a rage boner for Iran? Yes they humiliated them in the 70s but so did Vietnam and now relations are relatively normal there. What's different about Iran? Especially now the USA is independent of Middle East oil. Is Vietnam having disputes with its neighbours where the USA has to pick sides? If so, why do we hardly ever hear about it? Iran has lots of murals displaying "Death to America" and can regularly get crowds to chant the same. Iran can define an alternative agenda to the one that America wants. In short, Iran can do its own thing without America's approval and often with America's disapproval. Similarly, America loved Saddam Hussein until he started doing his own thing without consulting them first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Is Vietnam having disputes with its neighbours where the USA has to pick sides? The US and the UK supported Pol Pot when the Vietnamese tried to overthrow him, if that helps. Maggie sent our boys out to train his troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: The US and the UK supported Pol Pot when the Vietnamese tried to overthrow him, if that helps. Maggie sent our boys out to train his troops. I didn't know that! You'd think being a Communist she would have opposed him. Still, according to Anthony Sutton the Soviet Union was funded by Wall Street bankers... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ralstonite said: I didn't know that! You'd think being a Communist she would have opposed him. Still, according to Anthony Sutton the Soviet Union was funded by Wall Street bankers... And Professor Carroll Quigley. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 33 minutes ago, sjc said: And Professor Carroll Quigley. I've always wanted to read Tragedy & Hope. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Ralstonite said: I've always wanted to read Tragedy & Hope. Don't. Read Tragedy and Hope 101 by Joe Plummer instead. It cuts out a lot of the academic "filler". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, sjc said: Don't. Read Tragedy and Hope 101 by Joe Plummer instead. It cuts out a lot of the academic "filler". I'll take a look! I understand Tragedy & Hope's 1,000 pages long and very academic, so thanks for the recommendation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Ralstonite said: I'll take a look! I understand Tragedy & Hope's 1,000 pages long and very academic, so thanks for the recommendation. I think it's actually over 1500 pages! But you're correct, it's very academic. He was their chosen historian after all! Also, you might find the various interviews with Norman Dodd on YouTube interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, sjc said: I think it's actually over 1500 pages! But you're correct, it's very academic. He was their chosen historian after all! Also, you might find the various interviews with Norman Dodd on YouTube interesting. Will take a look, thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 2 hours ago, MixuFixit said: Ehhh again though the motivation there is because Israel is a safe place to land planes when they wanted power to access oil, which isn't relevant anymore. That said, shale is more expensive to extract, so making crude harder to market in the middle East is still served by that strategy. This applies to Saudi as well though, who have deliberately tried to crash crude prices to make shale uneconomical, yet the USA doesn't attack here. You really don't get it. Israel Israel Israel Israel. That's what its all about. I can tell you why Trump decided to do this, and also relocate the US embassy to Jersualem, in two words - Jarrod Kushner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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