Newbornbairn Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Source? Doesn’t seem a great way of doing business. Would expect most supermarkets to carefully manage their supply chain but direct management seems extreme, its just not what their good at. https://www.morrisons-farming.com/where-we-work/woodheads/ Quote We are still the only major supermarket to own it’s own abattoir and meat processing operations, giving us unique traceability and control over our supply chain. And crucially, having our own meat business means we are the only big supermarket to buy cattle, sheep and pigs directly from British Farmers with our own team of specialist livestock buyers. Today we have three sites in Lancashire, Aberdeenshire and Lincolnshire. Together they process over 3,800 cattle, 11,000 lambs and 30,000 pigs every week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 They must sell a lot of pork. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Aren't they against harming animals? I'd say castrating yer dug falls into that category. Neutering pets has a number of health benefits to them, in addition to preventing further breeding. Therefore, it's not really accurate to describe it as "harming animals" - it certainly involves hurting them, but it has a long-term benefit. It's much like many human health treatments in that way - for example getting a tooth out might hurt, but the dentist is doing it for a valid reason. I imagine there are some vegans who would be against it, and would argue that we shouldn't make decisions for animals since we don't have agency over them, but I would suspect that they are in the overwhelming minority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 A lawyer interviewed this morning mentioned a tribunal case brought by a vegan against a company where the boss brought in cakes she had baked for the staff. No vegan ones, so this was discrimination, she claimed. Thankfully it didn't succeed but the lawyer was rubbing her hands with glee that the next such case could be successful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Thanks. Owning the abattoir makes a bit more sense. Doesn’t look like own tho farms tho and operate similar supply chain management of others for that stage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Neutering pets has a number of health benefits to them, in addition to preventing further breeding. Therefore, it's not really accurate to describe it as "harming animals" - it certainly involves hurting them, but it has a long-term benefit. It's much like many human health treatments in that way - for example getting a tooth out might hurt, but the dentist is doing it for a valid reason. I imagine there are some vegans who would be against it, and would argue that we shouldn't make decisions for animals since we don't have agency over them, but I would suspect that they are in the overwhelming minority at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Define badly treated. Cos you can have wildly different definitions depending on who’s talking. Hardly seems much point in defining it then surely? You only have to look at the differences in standards for keeping livestock and keeping pets. For me any animal under human care should be provided with the following as a bare minimum: Clean water Species-appropriate, varied diet Suitable enclosure Quality enrichment Company of the same species (if social) Suitable shelter Veterinary treatment where necessary It's not possible to provide livestock with everything on that list while keeping up with demand for meat, eggs and dairy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Hardly seems much point in defining it then surely? You only have to look at the differences in standards for keeping livestock and keeping pets. For me any animal under human care should be provided with the following as a bare minimum: Clean water Species-appropriate, varied diet Suitable enclosure Quality enrichment Company of the same species (if social) Suitable shelter Veterinary treatment where necessary It's not possible to provide livestock with everything on that list while keeping up with demand for meat, eggs and dairy. Industry standard by comparison.Your first 2 points are covered by 1. Points 3 and 5 by 2.Point 4 by 4Your last point by 3. Quality enrichment isn’t directly covered but not uncommon and depending on species will be covered indirectly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Industry standard by comparison. Your first 2 points are covered by 1. Points 3 and 5 by 2. Point 4 by 4 Your last point by 3. Quality enrichment isn’t directly covered but not uncommon and depending on species will be covered indirectly I can't see the image you've tried to post but I imagine we'd have had the SSPCA at the door if we'd kept our hens to the industry standard for free-range chickens (9 hens per square meter of space). It's not just about how the animal is treated while it's alive anyway though. Our hens for example generally laid an egg a day while their wild equivalent only lay a couple of clutches a year. The very fact that they were bred in such a way as to maximise their egg production at the expense of their quality and quantity of life is also objectionable as far as I'm concerned. Edited January 7, 2020 by Rizzo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I can't see the image you've tried to post but I imagine we'd have had the SSPCA at the door if we'd kept our hens to the industry standard for free-range chickens (9 hens per square meter of space). It's not just about how the animal is treated while it's alive anyway though. Our hens for example generally laid an egg a day while their wild equivalent only lay a couple of clutches a year. The very fact that livestock is bred in such a way as to maximise their egg production at the expense of their quality and quantity of life is also objectionable as far as I'm concerned. I posted the 5 freedoms. Breeding to maximize productivity is industrialized farming almost by definition we’ve only been at it for a few milenia, it’s abit late to stop it now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: at the moment. You think that vegans are going to suddenly become more opposed to the neutering of pets? If anything, it's probably more likely to go in the other direction as more people become vegan and the proper "hardcore" ones are diluted by the people doing it for perceived environmental benefits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, parsforlife said: I posted the 5 freedoms. Breeding to maximize productivity is industrialized farming almost by definition we’ve only been at it for a few milenia, it’s abit late to stop it now. Lots of industries have had to change their policies and structures in line with changing cultural norms - why would commercial farming be immune to this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, parsforlife said: I posted the 5 freedoms. Breeding to maximize productivity is industrialized farming almost by definition we’ve only been at it for a few milenia, it’s abit late to stop it now. The 5 freedoms is the RSPCAs own standards rather than industry standards though? Battery hens certainly don't get an opportunity to express anything remotely resembling natural behaviour for one. Edited January 7, 2020 by Rizzo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Vegans are like religious people. Tedious c***s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Lots of industries have had to change their policies and structures in line with changing cultural norms - why would commercial farming be immune to this?Commercial farming is constantly changing. You think that selective breeding would stop tho? Might as well head back to hunter gathering. The 5 freedoms is the RSPCAs own standards rather than industry standards though? Battery hens certainly don't get an opportunity to express anything remotely resembling natural behaviour for one.Industry works with the 5 freedoms, it doesn’t make any sense not too. Battery farming is long banned so I don’t see the relevance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Battery farming is long banned so I don’t see the relevance Eh? It most certainly is not. Edit: The old style battery cages housing a single hen are banned but half the eggs produced in the UK come from caged hens. Edited January 7, 2020 by Rizzo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Eh? It most certainly is not. Edit: The old style battery cages housing a single hen are banned but you can still buy eggs from caged hens. EU wide ban since 2012 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Oh so it’s fine for you to cut off an animals balls but not for me to eat them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Battery farming is long banned so I don’t see the relevance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, parsforlife said: EU wide ban since 2012 See my edit, conditions for caged hens aren't exactly anything for the industry to brag about. Edited January 7, 2020 by Rizzo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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