Scotland's Place in the UK

[Hedgecutter]

How do you see Scotland's place within the UK?  Are we merely another part of the UK fortunate to have a devolved government (similar to London) that should suck up to whatever the UK voted for as a whole?  Or does the UK comprise 4 equal nations that during the current Brexit stand-off should have equal weighting, regardless of population bias?

 

Going by the early 1707 designs for the Union Flag during the initial Act of Union, this key constitutional question has obviously been around for a while.

 

So what's your answer?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Hedgecutter

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

How do you see Scotland's place within the UK?  Are we merely another part of the UK fortunate to have a devolved government (similar to London) that should suck up to whatever the UK voted for as a whole, or are we genuinely a nation of equals for which electoral results / decisions should have equal weighting, regardless of population bias?

 

Going by the early 1707 designs for the Act of Union, this key constitutional question has obviously been around for a while.

 what's your answer?

rUK - wee guys

Scotland - shaggers. 

[tree house tam]

4 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

So what's your answer?

Separate the Union,  we are different in every way.

[Richey Edwards]

I think that it would be beneficial for the whole of the United Kingdom for each of it's component countries to become independent entities and govern themselves.

Scotland consists of 59 constituencies, Wales has 40, NI has 18 - a combined total of 117. This number is dwarfed by England's 533. Surely it is obvious that the current political makeup of the United Kingdom is structured in a way that favours only one of the component nations?

Edited December 13, 2019 by The Gypsy King

[Comrie]

We're an afterthought.

[tamthebam]

The 1707 Act of Union was between two Kingdoms (Scotland and England) to form one Kingdom (the united kingdom of Great Britain). Wales, a principality, had been joined with England during Henry VIII's time. Ireland was united with the UK in 1801- presumably the failed statelet's status is covered by the 1922 treaty setting up the Free State (now Republic of Ireland) although it often is referred to as the "Province" (with slight echoes of imperialism there). 

Given the various levels of power now devolved to the parts of the UK it's slightly akin to Yugoslavia's 1974 constitution: Macedonia, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Serbia, Slovenia, Croatia and Montenegro were all full republics within the federal state (for which read Scotland) while Kosovo and Vojvodina were autonomous regions with less powers than a full federal republic (for which read Wales and N.I.). 

So historically speaking the UK is made up of two countries/kingdoms, a principality and a failed statelet. 

[Dunfermline Don]

Scotland’s place in the UK is at the very North of it!

It’s To provide the rest of the UK with our natural resources, water, oil etc. And a nice wee base for its nuclear weapons.

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Scotland's place in the UK ? To serve as a tartan theme park and Brigadoon fantasyland for the world's tourists. To tug our forelocks when British Royalty holidays here.

To provide a ready supply of young people as cannon fodder for UK military misadventures. Above all, to know our place.

[Crùbag]

Our place in the UK? We're the horse.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Margaret Thatcher (and I'm no fan!!) even understood about the mandate for getting independence.

From page 624 of her book The Downing Street Years. Midway through paragraph two, she asserts:

“The Tory Party is not, of course, an English party, but a Unionist one. If it sometimes seems English to some Scots, that is because the Union is inevitably dominated by England by reason of its greater population. The Scots, being an historic nation with a proud past, will inevitably resent some expressions of this fact from time to time."

"As a nation, they have an undoubted right to national self-determination; thus far they have exercised that right by joining and remaining in the Union. Should they determine on independence, no English party or politician would stand in their way, however much we might regret their departure.”

[Dan Steele]

The easy thing would be to say we are seen as an irrelevance by the new UK government. But I think although they might continue to shoo us away as an annoyance, they are shaken to the core after the election result. They are on the back foot, the strategy of 'no policy, just lend us your vote to stop indyref2' has failed completely. The worry is how they now try to stop this obviously massive change in Scotland. Will it be the media who do the work or the UK government by questionable legal ways? Already there are rumbling of Scotland Act repeal.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

[Dan Steele]

15 minutes ago, Stinky Bone said:

But can they actually repeal it though?  I posted on the other thread about the Scotland Act, and as far as I am aware they can amend it.  

I don't know for sure though. 

I honestly don't know either, just going on the rumour that a Sunday paper might be running a story on a UK gov threat to Scottish power and Holyrood. Could be the start of a chipping away at the legitimacy of Holyrood perhaps.

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

I honestly don't know either, just going on the rumour that a Sunday paper might be running a story on a UK gov threat to Scottish power and Holyrood. Could be the start of a chipping away at the legitimacy of Holyrood perhaps.

Tbf there were journalists on election night saying the Tories would begin a media smear campaign against the SNP and Holyrood, and eventually work their way up to take as many powers away as possible.

[Father Ted]

Is now untenable.

[DukDukGoose]

Answered the first one which is why I'd love independence.

[Fullerene]

In the USA, California has nearly 40 million people while Wyoming has less than 600,000 and yet they both send two senators to Washington. 

Maybe not relevant to this thread  but any opinions welcome.

[Fullerene]

18 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

California should pay like 20 million of their citizens to go live to in the rural red states for 2020 and turn them blue.

Yeah great idea but how much to get someone to live in North Dakota?

[Dunfermline Don]

In the USA, California has nearly 40 million people while Wyoming has less than 600,000 and yet they both send two senators to Washington. 
Maybe not relevant to this thread  but any opinions welcome.

I know where you are coming from.
That is their equivalent of the Lords and there are 50 states as against 4 in the UK. A similar scenario would only work in the UK if England was regionalised and I can’t see that happening!

[John Lambies Doos]

But can they actually repeal it though?  I posted on the other thread about the Scotland Act, and as far as I am aware they can amend it.  
I don't know for sure though. 

Devolution killed the independence movement stone dead.
[emoji848][emoji12]