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oaksoft

Why Do the Working Classes Vote Tory?

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I think we can safely dismiss most of the contributions to this thread as whining petulance. Well, those that are not outright bigotry. 

A tiny microcosm of the self indulgent dumpster-fire that is modern western politics. 

We need to reconnect social democracy with a much wider group of voters than feel currently represented by it. We will have to do this amid the fall out of our breaking relationship with Europe, significant risks of banking and "Euro" crises in our near neighbours and god knows how the worlds second largest economy will deal with its debt problems. This is not a UK problem, social democratic parties across Europe have lost credibility. Significant portions of the western peoples have been economically left behind and isolated as well as are now seen as "deplorables", "gammons" and a host of contemptuously snearing names. 

People feel they have nothing invested in the current system, they have not benefited from the past 40 years of economic changes, so how can they lose? Resources (health care, social provision, work) have become constrained so they see interlopers are commentators not people whos arrival helps maintain economic growth. Its not racist to worry about immigration when its a rational choice. What is the worst that could happen if they break with the EU? London and the SE suffer as fintech, finance, services and so on struggle. Not their town, it has been struggling since the 70s. For many they may believe the break may improve things, its punt with upsides for them but they do not see downsides. 

The working class in the big cities like Manchester, London and so on will have seen their cities improve, will have better opportunities in many cases. They have more vested into the system, more to lose. It is only one part of a large and complex conversion that needs to happen but will be drowned out by the idiots. 

In 5...4 ....

 

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Looking at my own friends on social media from these areas its

1/ Casual racism (a picture of some refugees with the headline "turn back labour lost")seems to be doing the rounds

2/ Jezza was seen as commander in chief of the ra

3/Brexit

But im sure all those posting about the social economic patterns etc with long winded posts must be correct

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47 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

I think we can safely dismiss most of the contributions to this thread as whining petulance. Well, those that are not outright bigotry. 

A tiny microcosm of the self indulgent dumpster-fire that is modern western politics. 

We need to reconnect social democracy with a much wider group of voters than feel currently represented by it. We will have to do this amid the fall out of our breaking relationship with Europe, significant risks of banking and "Euro" crises in our near neighbours and god knows how the worlds second largest economy will deal with its debt problems. This is not a UK problem, social democratic parties across Europe have lost credibility. Significant portions of the western peoples have been economically left behind and isolated as well as are now seen as "deplorables", "gammons" and a host of contemptuously snearing names. 

People feel they have nothing invested in the current system, they have not benefited from the past 40 years of economic changes, so how can they lose? Resources (health care, social provision, work) have become constrained so they see interlopers are commentators not people whos arrival helps maintain economic growth. Its not racist to worry about immigration when its a rational choice. What is the worst that could happen if they break with the EU? London and the SE suffer as fintech, finance, services and so on struggle. Not their town, it has been struggling since the 70s. For many they may believe the break may improve things, its punt with upsides for them but they do not see downsides. 

The working class in the big cities like Manchester, London and so on will have seen their cities improve, will have better opportunities in many cases. They have more vested into the system, more to lose. It is only one part of a large and complex conversion that needs to happen but will be drowned out by the idiots. 

In 5...4 ....

 

The phrase “word salad” is overused on here but...

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16 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

You don't even know what you're talking about.

The statement "Scotland spends" doesn't even make sense. It's how much "Government spends on Scotland" from the tax revenue that is generated. Scotland generates over £60bn in tax revenue each and every year. It all gets send down to the UK treasury. The UK treasury then sends £33bn back for the Scottish Government budget. The Scottish Government has always operated within this budget, never going over it and always ending each financial year with an annual underspend (which unionists like yourself get your knickers in a twist about for some odd reason).
The other £27bn is retained by Westminster and they spend that on matters that are reserved/not devolved to the Scottish Parliament. But because they're so piss poor at managing matters that aren't devolved to the Scottish Parliament, they end up over spending by around £12.5bn. Which they then have a cheek to call "Scotlands Deficit".

This is what Stewart Hosie and Humza Yousaf were both getting at.


 

It should also be emphasised that the UK debt results in economic activity and therefore revenue. The vast majority of central govt spend is in London and the SE. The resultant revenue from the economic activity is then almost exclusively funnelled through the accounts of London and the SE. This effect multiplies and creates tax income from secondary and service industry .

Scotland (and the other constituent parts of the UK outside the SE) are allocated a population share of the debt, but do not receiving any allocation of this revenue share resulting from the economic growth.

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11 minutes ago, The OP said:

The phrase “word salad” is overused on here but...

:lol:

 

21 hours ago, The OP said:

Surprising to find out that the only working class people in Scotland live in the borders and near (but not in) Aberdeen. Think I read somewhere that Liverpool swung away from the Tories too so a distinct lack of working class people there I imagine.

Perhaps you can find a thread on which celebrity has the biggest tits, something more in keeping your ability level. 

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Perhaps you can find a thread on which celebrity has the biggest tits, something more in keeping your ability level. 

Why? He's making a very perceptive point with Liverpool. A city that collectively made a decision to boycott the Sun with the knock on effects of being suspicious of their co-travellers bucking the trend of a swing away from Labour points to something worth investigating vis why so many people vote conservative when it's plainly against their interests to do so.

 

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Looking at my own friends on social media from these areas its 

1/ Casual racism (a picture of some refugees with the headline "turn back labour lost")seems to be doing the rounds

 

2/ Jezza was seen as commander in chief of the ra

 

3/Brexit

 

But im sure all those posting about the social economic patterns etc with long winded posts must be correct

 

You are right about casual racism. 

 

 

A lot of these pensioners before immigrants shite etc posts that get shared - nearly always from some far right source.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Oh FFS. There's no borrowing. 

Scotland spends more than it raises in revenue. That is fact. The £12.6bn isn't borrowed, it's what Scotland gets as it's share of total UK revenue through the Barnett Formula. The SNP trades on the wealth of London, the East of England and the South East of England - and it trades on it to the point where they almost completely cover the entire cost of the Scottish NHS budget. Take Scotland out the UK and Scotland are fucked - even your own Finance Minister agrees with that. 

Malky getting exasperated having to repeat his £12.6bn "fact" for the 15,000 time. we all have limits......😄

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19 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

:lol:

 

Perhaps you can find a thread on which celebrity has the biggest tits, something more in keeping your ability level. 

It was a load of meandering, pseudo intellectual prolix dripping in bitterness but not clear on exactly what it is bitter about.
I feel I am being harsh with you and I understand your offence but your posting is awful. At least the much maligned malky et al make readable posts with a clear point.

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4 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

Malky getting exasperated having to repeat his £12.6bn "fact" for the 15,000 time. we all have limits......😄

How dare you, basket weaving on the Essex marshes is keeping us alive in the Northern lands of dole scroungers! Show your gratitude.

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Why would any pensioners vote tory when they are well aware that UK pensioners have the second lowest pension in the world against one of the highest cost of loving, the lowest being South Africa.
Plus UK pensioners are indirectly means tested for their pensions by their NI contributions.
And I'll throw in the thousands of Waspi women, I'm sure they voted tory???
Turkish pensioners receive 100% of their working wage for instance.
Surprising how you failed to respond to the heavy decline in the tory vote since the 1950's and the loss of 7 MP's in Scotland.
 
 

I don’t know if anyone else has covered this in the last 7 pages and i cba reading.
State pension are notoriously stingy in the uk but private pensions on the other hand , many of our current crop of 60-85 year olds will be recieving some tasty final salary pensions . Those who retired pre crash from the major banks/ insurance or oil the likes of bp or Scottish power will most likely be recieving more than the average wage per month in pensions.
Over 65s are the wealthiest age group in many parts of the uk nowadays. Pensions arethe most tax efficient way to save and generally speaking, the torries are guid tae the rich auld buggers!

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One theory I have Is that poor people don’t vote on the basis of their track record to the poor, but to elevate themselves socially.

Voting for those that support the upperclass to try and shift themselves through the class system, and as an act of encouragement to elevate themselves in other ways of life.

Personally it just doesn’t compute with me, grew up in Grangemouth, worked in a prison before going to uni, personally I’ve seen what has happened to people at the hands of the Tories. Seen those left behind that thatcher declared as the “underclass”, if I didn’t support indy I’d back labour, but until they adopt such a stance Towards indy I’ll back the snp, but also, whilst working in the prison I saw good wage increases and facility redevelopment at the hands of the snp. Whilst the Tories continue to destroy and privatise the English prison system.

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1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

Why? He's making a very perceptive point with Liverpool. A city that collectively made a decision to boycott the Sun with the knock on effects of being suspicious of their co-travellers bucking the trend of a swing away from Labour points to something worth investigating vis why so many people vote conservative when it's plainly against their interests to do so.

 

Are you even listening to yourself with this patronsing pish? :lol:

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48 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:


I don’t know if anyone else has covered this in the last 7 pages and i cba reading.
State pension are notoriously stingy in the uk but private pensions on the other hand , many of our current crop of 60-85 year olds will be recieving some tasty final salary pensions . Those who retired pre crash from the major banks/ insurance or oil the likes of bp or Scottish power will most likely be recieving more than the average wage per month in pensions.
Over 65s are the wealthiest age group in many parts of the uk nowadays. Pensions arethe most tax efficient way to save and generally speaking, the torries are guid tae the rich auld buggers!

I mentioned it several pages back.

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Are you even listening to yourself with this patronsing pish? 

Like I said I'll keep an eye on your posts over 2020 and try to figure out what it is in the outside world that has this Jekyll/Hyde effect on you. I don't think it's lunar as it's a half moon tonight.

 

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3 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Like I said I'll keep an eye on your posts over 2020 and try to figure out what it is in the outside world that has this Jekyll/Hyde effect on you. I don't think it's lunar as it's a half moon tonight.

:lol:

And while that keeps you occupied I'll continue to find enjoyment in your perpetual befuddlement over the politics of the working class. :lol:

I have particularly enjoyed your arrogant claim that they are PLAINLY voting against their best interests.

Have you considered setting up an outreach group to re-educate these people? You clearly think it's necessary and you are obviously the very person to administer it.  :lol:

Edited by oaksoft

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And while that keeps you occupied I'll continue to find enjoyment in your perpetual befuddlement over the politics of the working class. 

I'm not befuddled though. I know exactly why the Tory vote stays high.

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1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:


I'm not befuddled though. I know exactly why the Tory vote stays high.

There's no fool quite like an arrogant fool. :lol:

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