Ayr vs Arbroath

[HMIP]

11 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Adams was our first choice centre back mate. In fact I believe McCall hailed him as the best penalty box defender in the league. Muirhead and Roscoe started off well as I said but that has quickly turned bad.

Murdoch being out injured wouldn’t be as bad if Kerr was able to stay fit but he clearly didn’t. All it takes is 2 or 3 injuries and we’re in trouble. Especially in midfield.

And you’re tagging McCall as a “lucky guess” just to try and diminish Cameron when it actual fact it proved to be a terrific appointment. He didn’t pluck him out of thin air, he came with glowing references from two other managers.

Adams was first choice in McCall’s head.  He reckoned he was the best centre back in the league which was laughable.  Adams is useful if you want him to go and have a 1-2-1 battle with a centre forward, but as a week in week out centre back, he was never more than mediocre. 

Cameron has admitted on more than one occasion that he’d never heard of McCall until he received 2 recommendations out of the blue and decided to go with them based on the reputations of the people involved. That’s what I mean by lucky guess.  The evidence is that Cameron doesn’t really know much about Scottish football and tends to make poor appointments.  Ann Budge seems to have the sane isssue.

I’m afraid you don’t seem to want to engage with the evidence in front of our eyes that the same group of players who got us to 2nd in the league, even with a couple of injuries, are the same group of players who’ve barely mustered a shot at goal in recent games against Dundee, Queens, Dunfermline, Inverness and Arbroath.

[malkyshotton]

It looks like the players  either aren't buying into Kerr's idea's or they just don't understand what he wants. Too many players well under par and you've got to ask why. We look like relegation fodder right now. Maybe our form dip has just came early and we will get better but hopefully we get sorted sooner rather than later. I'm sure once Kerr and his assistant check the stats on their iPad they'll see where we are going wrong and fix it.

[D'Jaffo]

Adams was first choice in McCall’s head.  He reckoned he was the best centre back in the league which was laughable.  Adams is useful if you want him to go and have a 1-2-1 battle with a centre forward, but as a week in week out centre back, he was never more than mediocre. 
Cameron has admitted on more than one occasion that he’d never heard of McCall until he received 2 recommendations out of the blue and decided to go with them based on the reputations of the people involved. That’s what I mean by lucky guess.  The evidence is that Cameron doesn’t really know much about Scottish football and tends to make poor appointments.  Ann Budge seems to have the sane isssue.
I’m afraid you don’t seem to want to engage with the evidence in front of our eyes that the same group of players who got us to 2nd in the league, even with a couple of injuries, are the same group of players who’ve barely mustered a shot at goal in recent games against Dundee, Queens, Dunfermline, Inverness and Arbroath.

Adams is still a better option than Muirhead and Roscoe.

Of those games you’ve mentioned we played Dunfermline, ICT, QOTS and Arbroath with key players missing. Namely Kerr, Bell and then McCowan for the latter 3. A couple of injuries might not make an instant impact but if they stay out they will take their toll. Did you seriously expect that with having Bell, Kerr, Murdoch and Adams out we would be able to sustain our challenge at the top? And then adding McCowan into the mix for 2 huge games.

[Guest]

I think some of you need a reality check.

Yes, I agree that we're not playing very well and I also agree that our style has appeared to change since the Partick game, however this is a tight league and we actually had an almost identical form slump at this point last season under McCall and that was with Rose, Shankland, Crawford, Smith, Murdoch & McDaid all in our ranks.

As for the Manager talk, I'd say every Manager in the league (with the exception of maybe Dick Campbell) is massively under achieving if you look at their clubs league positions in relation to their budgets.

Should they all be sacked ?

Should their boards and Chairmen all be removed ??

Seriously guys, we've been over performing for the past year and a half and maybe now we're finding our true level, however staying in this league was always the real target and I firmly believe that we'll do this with our current squad and Management team and anything else will be a bonus............

[HMIP]

4 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Adams is still a better option than Muirhead and Roscoe.

Of those games you’ve mentioned we played Dunfermline, ICT, QOTS and Arbroath with key players missing. Namely Kerr, Bell and then McCowan for the latter 3. A couple of injuries might not make an instant impact but if they stay out they will take their toll. Did you seriously expect that with having Bell, Kerr, Murdoch and Adams out we would be able to sustain our challenge at the top? And then adding McCowan into the mix for 2 huge games.

Roscoe is a bombscare, but I’m far from convinced that Adams would displace Muirhead.  And no, I didn’t expect us to sustain a challenge.  But I do struggle to understand the lack of concern over the total collapse of form, confidence, shape, style and tactics since Kerr took over.  At the very minimum, the club need to bring in an experienced first team coach as a matter of priority.  I tend to defend Cameron, but as chairman he cannot allow things to continue as they are.  

[1320Lichtie]

Surely a player shooshing or giving a get it up you to the crowd should never ever ever result in anything being thrown regardless? It's only a game and that kind of behaviour is entertaining and should be encouraged, it's all part of the pantomime

McKenna plays with his heart on his sleeve, a bit like Steven McLean, wouldn't be surprised if he winds himself up before games

Would've made it all the sweeter for the Ayr fans if they'd scored a winner too. Giving stick back to McKenna

At the end of the day it's a game and a sport and any sane person can see that it's wrong to try and physically hurt someone over a few silly gestures

Football would be boring if nobody was like that

[ayrunitedfw]

14 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

I think some of you need a reality check.

Yes, I agree that we're not playing very well and I also agree that our style has appeared to change since the Partick game, however this is a tight league and we actually had an almost identical form slump at this point last season under McCall and that was with Rose, Shankland, Crawford, Smith, Murdoch & McDaid all in our ranks.

As for the Manager talk, I'd say every Manager in the league (with the exception of maybe Dick Campbell) is massively under achieving if you look at their clubs league positions in relation to their budgets.

Should they all be sacked ?

Should their boards and Chairmen all be removed ??

Seriously guys, we've been over performing for the past year and a half and maybe now we're finding our true level, however staying in this league was always the real target and I firmly believe that we'll do this with our current squad and Management team and anything else will be a bonus............

Where is our true level then? 

[D'Jaffo]

Roscoe is a bombscare, but I’m far from convinced that Adams would displace Muirhead.  And no, I didn’t expect us to sustain a challenge.  But I do struggle to understand the lack of concern over the total collapse of form, confidence, shape, style and tactics since Kerr took over.  At the very minimum, the club need to bring in an experienced first team coach as a matter of priority.  I tend to defend Cameron, but as chairman he cannot allow things to continue as they are.  

Muirhead is now a pretty average League 1 defender. Adams is comfortably better than him. Roscoe at least has time on his side and hopefully gets better.

What if Kerr doesn’t want an experienced coach? You gonna force him to have one? It’s pretty irrelevant anyway as he’s only going to be doing what Kerr tells him so I don’t see that changing our fortunes all that much.

I’m not overly concerned because for one I recognise Kerr is starting out and needs the backing of everyone in order to be successful. I don’t buy for one minute that the players have given up on him (another lazy argument when fork dips tbh) and I think he needs a chance to get his best starting XI out. That means a 4-3-3 with Kerr and Bell back in, Muirhead out and Forrest, Moffat and McCowan all back up front.

[D'Jaffo]

Where is our true level then? 

7th or 8th in the Championship imo.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ayrunitedfw said:

Where is our true level then? 

On budget I'd say anything above 7th is doing well.

Football's obviously not as simple as that or it would all be pretty boring and pointless, however we can't be sucked into this sacking Managers lark for finishing 8th in a league when we've actually got the smallest budget outwith the two part time teams.

In this league I go to matches with the hope of winning but certainly not the expectation, if I did, then I'd be better jumping on a supporters bus to Ibrox or Parkhead.

As I've said before, I've had a season ticket for Somerset for over 30 years and I've NEVER taken anything for granted in that time, where Ayr are concerned, and at this moment we're doing as well as we've ever done in my time watching us, so while a little disappointed at recent results and performances, I'm certainly not throwing the dummy out of the pram just yet.................

[Hursty]

I'd say Saturday will be a good indicator - we could theoretically play the same XI and formation as we did when hammering Alloa away - will be interesting to see how many changes in personnel / style we go with and see the end result. 

 

[HMIP]

38 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Muirhead is now a pretty average League 1 defender. Adams is comfortably better than him. Roscoe at least has time on his side and hopefully gets better.

What if Kerr doesn’t want an experienced coach? You gonna force him to have one? It’s pretty irrelevant anyway as he’s only going to be doing what Kerr tells him so I don’t see that changing our fortunes all that much.

I’m not overly concerned because for one I recognise Kerr is starting out and needs the backing of everyone in order to be successful. I don’t buy for one minute that the players have given up on him (another lazy argument when fork dips tbh) and I think he needs a chance to get his best starting XI out. That means a 4-3-3 with Kerr and Bell back in, Muirhead out and Forrest, Moffat and McCowan all back up front.

Because absolutely no one noticed any difference to our style when Stewart came in as first team coach.  Makes you wonder why any teams have first team coaches at all.  

[D'Jaffo]

Because absolutely no one noticed any difference to our style when Stewart came in as first team coach.  Makes you wonder why any teams have first team coaches at all.  

In fact no one really started talking about Stewart as a good coach until it looked like he might have to manage us. I don’t remember many folk praising him last season.

Point is you can’t say the club haven’t given Kerr an experienced coach when you don’t know if Kerr wants one. If he’s asked for someone else to join he’ll tell the board and it’ll likely happen. He’s asked for McArdle and he got McArdle.

[the west curve]

2 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

7th or 8th in the Championship imo.

League one mid table.

[UpInTheAyr]

3 hours ago, malkyshotton said:

It looks like the players  either aren't buying into Kerr's idea's or they just don't understand what he wants. Too many players well under par and you've got to ask why. We look like relegation fodder right now. Maybe our form dip has just came early and we will get better but hopefully we get sorted sooner rather than later. I'm sure once Kerr and his assistant check the stats on their iPad they'll see where we are going wrong and fix it.

I don't think changing formation weekly helps, although  I can understand why he's done it. Not sure McCall would have done the same, and instead maybe just got the players fired up for it in his own eccentric way, which is an area Kerr may be lacking in.

[BukyOHare]

Have I missed much?

[BukyOHare]

4 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

There’s so many things wrong with this it’s unreal.

Yes we ran over the top of Partick and Alloa but they’re sitting 9th and 10th in the league so it’s to be expected. The 3-0 game against Arbroath came around as we were in brilliant form and we blew them away. However it’s pretty clear to see that Arbroath are a good side and with the conditions yesterday it was never going to be an easy game.

You’ve made such a big deal over our injuries not being as bad as they are when we’ve still got 2 players out for the rest of the season and Kerr confirming last night that Kelly took a knock. Add to the fact that Doolan is still injured, Forrest is apparently nursing a knock and Bell played his first game in 3 months (who knows how long he’ll last??) and it’s not accurate to say that injuries aren’t an excuse. They’ve been a pretty prominent factor in the last 4 years and it’s down to McCall constantly handing out contracts to perma crocks.

As for the players not buying into Kerr. I’ve not seen the players down tools or look like the can’t be arsed. I’ve seen some pretty poor individual performances in the last few weeks but nothing that tells me that they don’t like what Kerr is doing. Saying that they’re not buying into his tactics is nonsense considering Kerr has said a few times that he won’t be making changes to the way we play. Last night he switched things because of the conditions and the games prior to that he played 4-4-2 because of injuries and a suspension. I’ve no doubts that he wants to use the 4-3-3 that has worked this season but he’s not had the chance to do so recently.

Granted we’re not in good form but we’re still 10 points above 9th so it’s premature to say we’re in a relegation scrap. If our form keep up we will be but all it takes is a couple of results and suddenly we’re back on track.

I don’t feel that sorry for Kerr in the sense that he actively sought this job out and made the case for him being the best man for the job. He then set out his plan and requested McArdle for an assistant. He wasn’t given the job out of the blue and told to take McArdle and get on with it. What I do feel sorry for him is that the squad as a whole he’s inherited isn’t big enough to sustain a play off push nor is it actually good enough. Muirhead and Roscoe played brilliantly against Dundee Utd and I think that bought them a bit of time tbh. One of them has to go and it’ll likely be Muirhead given Roscoe is younger, on a 2 year deal and at least showed promise with Alloa.

The comparisons to Mark Roberts are very lazy tbh and hold absolutely no weight. Kerr doesn’t exactly have the same personality as someone like McCall did but he explains his thinking behind things and doesn’t simply make excuses. Same can’t be said for Roberts.

To be fair, he had the chance to do it last night with a fit and ready McCowan ready to come right back in and for whatever reason chose not to.

I'm actually wondering if Moore and Moffat can play together in the 433 that got us early season success. If Moore plays up top, then it means Moffat and as a consequence Kelly, are both having to drop deeper. Moffat is so clever bringing other people into play and linking play up, Kelly seen to better effect when he's in support of, and able to get ahead of, the striker.

Get both further up the pitch when we have the ball and we'll be more of a threat to the opposition.

Ps nothing against Moore, I just feel we have to try and replicate the simple, high tempo play that served us so well not so long ago.

My fear is the management team are perhaps over thinking things, dare I say it trying to be too clever, and perhaps showing a stubborn refusal to acknowledge what was working for McCall.

[No_Problemo]

To be fair, he had the chance to do it last night with a fit and ready McCowan ready to come right back in and for whatever reason chose not to.
I'm actually wondering if Moore and Moffat can play together in the 433 that got us early season success. If Moore plays up top, then it means Moffat and as a consequence Kelly, are both having to drop deeper. Moffat is so clever bringing other people into play and linking play up, Kelly seen to better effect when he's in support of, and able to get ahead of, the striker.
Get both further up the pitch when we have the ball and we'll be more of a threat to the opposition.
Ps nothing against Moore, I just feel we have to try and replicate the simple, high tempo play that served us so well not so long ago.
My fear is the management team are perhaps over thinking things, dare I say it trying to be too clever, and perhaps showing a stubborn refusal to acknowledge what was working for McCall.

Our best side definitely doesn’t have Moore in it. I like Moore but I don’t think he’s good enough to be a starter every week.

[BukyOHare]

4 hours ago, WATTOO said:

Terrible conditions last night and I actually thought both teams did their best to play football as best they could. 

Arbroath were the better team for me but what annoyed me most was Ayr's inability to have a shot at goal in the first half when we had a gale force wind at our backs. Ironically the pre match warm up had McGuffie & McCowan rattling in strikes from all ranges and angles but of course neither were involved in the first half.

Nothing against Houston but again I prefer seeing Geggan at RB with a forward player such as Forrest ahead of him as Houston just can't link play the same way in which Forrest or McCowan can do, as such it also nullifies Moffat and Moore to an extent when neither of the aforementioned are playing.

It's hard to actually evaluate performances last night but Doohan was outstanding and saved our bacon with that injury time save.

Getting to the referee, I thought he was an absolute abysmal and although having a few absolutely shocking decisions against ourselves he also had a couple against Arbroath as well, especially the one where Muirhead cleared it off the line with his knee but the idiot gave us a goal kick instead of a corner to Arbroath.

Basically he was a complete cretin.

As I say Arbroath totally deserved their point and I wouldn't have grudged them three, however my one annoyance was with that tosser McKenna running up to the Ayr fans giving it the shooshing motion and the get it up you stuff when nobody had abused either him or anyone else. Totally unprofessional, totally uncalled for and something which we really need to get out of our game. The authorities wonder why certain people throw objects or shout abuse at players then maybe they should be looking at the actions of certain players who are actively inciting the paying customer and maybe they would get their answer. It's just uncalled for and I wouldn't be happy if my own team did it.

Anyway, kudos to the Arbroath fans who made that long trip and hopefully we can get back to winning ways on Saturday as the Alloa match has now become massive...............

Let's not start getting a reputation for being precious about things like this. If the crowd are giving it out then you've got to expect it coming back when the opposition score. Think Geggan when he scored against them at the Railway End, not many complaints that day, would it have excused the away support setting out their own justice in retort? No.

Anyway, in a home crowd of under 750 he probably couldn't fail to hear somebody munching on a packet of crisps let alone any verbals being aimed at him.

What a tinpot crowd that is btw, amazed nobody's brought it up. For all the chat on here of finding our own level heaven help us if that's what the town and county offers by way of support, to a full time team in the 2nd top league of our national sport. 

 

[D'Jaffo]

To be fair, he had the chance to do it last night with a fit and ready McCowan ready to come right back in and for whatever reason chose not to.
I'm actually wondering if Moore and Moffat can play together in the 433 that got us early season success. If Moore plays up top, then it means Moffat and as a consequence Kelly, are both having to drop deeper. Moffat is so clever bringing other people into play and linking play up, Kelly seen to better effect when he's in support of, and able to get ahead of, the striker.
Get both further up the pitch when we have the ball and we'll be more of a threat to the opposition.
Ps nothing against Moore, I just feel we have to try and replicate the simple, high tempo play that served us so well not so long ago.
My fear is the management team are perhaps over thinking things, dare I say it trying to be too clever, and perhaps showing a stubborn refusal to acknowledge what was working for McCall.

He said the conditions made him change the team last night which I’d presume contained McCowan and Forrest.

However I agree that Moore shouldn’t be starting games.