Ayr vs Arbroath

[1320Lichtie]

If anything that’s a foul the other way then.

Roscoe is going for the ball and McKenna comes through the side and makes contact with him and takes his leg away.

No, the defender swings his leg to kick it, McKenna gets a toe on the ball, the defenders foot kicks McKenna in the shin and rebounds back, and then McKennas back leg makes contact after he was fouled





The ball is away in both of they photos and McKenna hasn't made contact with the defender yet (except from being kicked after he's won the ball)

[D'Jaffo]

No, the defender swings his leg to kick it, McKenna gets a toe on the ball, the defenders foot kicks McKenna in the shin and rebounds back, and then McKennas back leg makes contact after he was fouled





The ball is away in both of they photos and McKenna hasn't made contact with the defender yet (except from being kicked after he's won the ball)

I definitely get what you’re saying but McKenna is the one that’s clattered into Roscoe and that contact is what’s knocked Roscoe over.

McKenna in trying to win the ball has already committed himself and is already going to ground. Imo he’s trying to knick the ball away, hits Roscoe and then goes down a bit theatrically and tries to get a penalty.

Even if it wasn’t given we’d have found some other way to shit the bed so hey ho.

[Lochwood]

Shocking conditions which seemed to get worse in the second half  and could only happen to us.

Worst referee in Scotland and to many times he hammers us absolute howler of a guy I don’t know what planets he’s on most of the time.

Still  too many players not playing well  but have to say that Harvie in particular has went from the best left back in the league to probably the worst but as I say he was not alone more than half the team are really poor just now.

Kerr  and Bell did help us and wil only get better after that game, but why was Mccowan not starting surely not another training ground injury keeping him on the bench.

The only thing from that game is we dug in and got a point which we’ve not been doing

Priority for the January window a big striker and centre half all the other teams seem to have this why not us, I’ll scream if Kerr brings in any more midgets we have more than our share thanks, some  height really needed to  to steady the ship.

 

 

[UpInTheAyr]

Seems like we were banking on playing into the wind first half then bring on our attacking players for the second. Hell of a time to start losing the coin toss.

[D'Jaffo]

Aye looks like it was a last minute change to pull the wingers and go 5 at the back but that went to pot when Arbroath switched on us.

[jm86]

Ludicrous penalty. McKenna stretches for the ball as Roscoe is about to clear it. McKenna then whacks his knee  into Roscoe's leg.  Just to make doubly sure of cheating a pen, he then drags his trailing leg along the ground in the hope of getting it entangled with Roscoe. This worked. well.  Must admit the whole thing was beautifully done by McKenna. He must spend hours practicing this sort of stuff.

As an example of yet another of the refs many howlers, how about the foul he gave at around 7.07 on the video. Doris, about to receive a pass,  has a glance to his left to see Roscoe coming in to challenge. He then quite deliberately throws himself in front of Roscoe and the ref gives Arbroath a free kick. Unbelievable. As a young player learning his trade, poor old Roscoe seems to have been targeted by the street wise cheats in the Arbroath team. 

In case you think this is all sour grapes, I would say Arbroath deserved a draw at the very least and probably should have won. Looked  stronger, faster  and more athletic than Ayr, specially in the second half.  Someone who didn't know, would have guessed they full time/part time status was the reverse of the actuality. Hard to believe how much  Ayr have deteriorated in the few short months since we won 3-0 at Gayfield. 

[1320Lichtie]

I definitely get what you’re saying but McKenna is the one that’s clattered into Roscoe and that contact is what’s knocked Roscoe over.

McKenna in trying to win the ball has already committed himself and is already going to ground. Imo he’s trying to knick the ball away, hits Roscoe and then goes down a bit theatrically and tries to get a penalty.

Even if it wasn’t given we’d have found some other way to shit the bed so hey ho.

I genuinely went back and watched it about 20 times and I honestly can't see that. All I see is McKenna nipping in getting his toe to the ball and Roscoe swinging a leg missing the ball and kicking McKenna.

Like you say it doesn't matter could argue all day it has happened

[the west curve]

I think when those clubs play next season,they will both be part time. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by the west curve

[Shandon Par]

Good result. Many thanks. 

[timlichtie]

Ludicrous penalty. McKenna stretches for the ball as Roscoe is about to clear it. McKenna then whacks his knee  into Roscoe's leg.  Just to make doubly sure of cheating a pen, he then drags his trailing leg along the ground in the hope of getting it entangled with Roscoe. This worked. well.  Must admit the whole thing was beautifully done by McKenna. He must spend hours practicing this sort of stuff.
As an example of yet another of the refs many howlers, how about the foul he gave at around 7.07 on the video. Doris, about to receive a pass,  has a glance to his left to see Roscoe coming in to challenge. He then quite deliberately throws himself in front of Roscoe and the ref gives Arbroath a free kick. Unbelievable. As a young player learning his trade, poor old Roscoe seems to have been targeted by the street wise cheats in the Arbroath team. 
In case you think this is all sour grapes, I would say Arbroath deserved a draw at the very least and probably should have won. Looked  stronger, faster  and more athletic than Ayr, specially in the second half.  Someone who didn't know, would have guessed they full time/part time status was the reverse of the actuality. Hard to believe how much  Ayr have deteriorated in the few short months since we won 3-0 at Gayfield. 

I have to agree with the last paragraph. The Lichties deserved the points in the end. Ayr looked a totally different team from the one that gave us the runaround at Gayfield. That was the best side to play us this season.

[Smokerson]

Looks a clear penalty to me, McKenna nicks in front, gets a touch on the ball and is wiped out. 

Football is a funny game, only a few weeks ago, Ayr were flying and tore us a new one at Gayfield, last night we seemed disappointed not to take 3 points.

Irrespective of the conditions, Gaston should be doing a lot better than that, maybe in his defence his own players seem to get in his way but he should be taking ownership of the situation. Poor goalkeeping.

[No_Problemo]

Think you would need to see it from another angle but looks like it could be a penalty.

Highlights confirm how awful we were and how little we did in the first half.

[HMIP]

11 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

It's a bit of both tbh. I think he needs until the end of the season before he can be properly judged. McCall bolted and left a very good starting XI but with very little depth, 3 or 4 guys that are constantly picking up knocks and a centre half that wouldn't get a game anywhere else in this league. 

As such I think he needs a transfer window and 3 or 4 fresh faces to make a proper go of it. 

Kerr has exactly the same team that ran over the top of Arbroath, Alloa and Partick 6-8 weeks back.  Even the win at Morton, though scrappy, showed a team with s bit of heart and desire.    If anything, we are now stronger with the return of Bell.

The injuries excuse has well and truly run its course.  Clear to anyone that has watched us lately that the players have not responded to the new management team.  Either they don’t understand what Kerr wants or they do and aren’t buying into it.  Anyone who thinks we aren’t in a relegation scrap now is s mug.  We can only hope the positive start to the season is enough to keep our heads above water.  

I actually feel a bit sorry for Kerr (for now) as he seems like a decent guy but was chucked in as the cheapest of cheap options and wasn’t even given an experienced back room team but rather some laptop manager who is probably only good for re-arranging the stationery cupboard.

Watching his post match interview was painful - it took Mark Roberts 6 months to look that lost, not 6 weeks.

 

[D'Jaffo]

Kerr has exactly the same team that ran over the top of Arbroath, Alloa and Partick 6-8 weeks back.  Even the win at Morton, though scrappy, showed a team with s bit of heart and desire.    If anything, we are now stronger with the return of Bell.
The injuries excuse has well and truly run its course.  Clear to anyone that has watched us lately that the players have not responded to the new management team.  Either they don’t understand what Kerr wants or they do and aren’t buying into it.  Anyone who thinks we aren’t in a relegation scrap now is s mug.  We can only hope the positive start to the season is enough to keep our heads above water.  
I actually feel a bit sorry for Kerr (for now) as he seems like a decent guy but was chucked in as the cheapest of cheap options and wasn’t even given an experienced back room team but rather some laptop manager who is probably only good for re-arranging the stationery cupboard.
Watching his post match interview was painful - it took Mark Roberts 6 months to look that lost, not 6 weeks.
 

There’s so many things wrong with this it’s unreal.

Yes we ran over the top of Partick and Alloa but they’re sitting 9th and 10th in the league so it’s to be expected. The 3-0 game against Arbroath came around as we were in brilliant form and we blew them away. However it’s pretty clear to see that Arbroath are a good side and with the conditions yesterday it was never going to be an easy game.

You’ve made such a big deal over our injuries not being as bad as they are when we’ve still got 2 players out for the rest of the season and Kerr confirming last night that Kelly took a knock. Add to the fact that Doolan is still injured, Forrest is apparently nursing a knock and Bell played his first game in 3 months (who knows how long he’ll last??) and it’s not accurate to say that injuries aren’t an excuse. They’ve been a pretty prominent factor in the last 4 years and it’s down to McCall constantly handing out contracts to perma crocks.

As for the players not buying into Kerr. I’ve not seen the players down tools or look like the can’t be arsed. I’ve seen some pretty poor individual performances in the last few weeks but nothing that tells me that they don’t like what Kerr is doing. Saying that they’re not buying into his tactics is nonsense considering Kerr has said a few times that he won’t be making changes to the way we play. Last night he switched things because of the conditions and the games prior to that he played 4-4-2 because of injuries and a suspension. I’ve no doubts that he wants to use the 4-3-3 that has worked this season but he’s not had the chance to do so recently.

Granted we’re not in good form but we’re still 10 points above 9th so it’s premature to say we’re in a relegation scrap. If our form keep up we will be but all it takes is a couple of results and suddenly we’re back on track.

I don’t feel that sorry for Kerr in the sense that he actively sought this job out and made the case for him being the best man for the job. He then set out his plan and requested McArdle for an assistant. He wasn’t given the job out of the blue and told to take McArdle and get on with it. What I do feel sorry for him is that the squad as a whole he’s inherited isn’t big enough to sustain a play off push nor is it actually good enough. Muirhead and Roscoe played brilliantly against Dundee Utd and I think that bought them a bit of time tbh. One of them has to go and it’ll likely be Muirhead given Roscoe is younger, on a 2 year deal and at least showed promise with Alloa.

The comparisons to Mark Roberts are very lazy tbh and hold absolutely no weight. Kerr doesn’t exactly have the same personality as someone like McCall did but he explains his thinking behind things and doesn’t simply make excuses. Same can’t be said for Roberts.

[AyrTroopMajor]

I personally thought it was a pretty clear penalty and an absolute beamer from those that are trying to pin our woeful performance on the referee (who was also shite btw). 

When you have the wind behind you, you have to take advantage of it. We were a shambles.

[AyrExile]

12 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

There’s so many things wrong with this it’s unreal.

Yes we ran over the top of Partick and Alloa but they’re sitting 9th and 10th in the league so it’s to be expected. The 3-0 game against Arbroath came around as we were in brilliant form and we blew them away. However it’s pretty clear to see that Arbroath are a good side and with the conditions yesterday it was never going to be an easy game.

You’ve made such a big deal over our injuries not being as bad as they are when we’ve still got 2 players out for the rest of the season and Kerr confirming last night that Kelly took a knock. Add to the fact that Doolan is still injured, Forrest is apparently nursing a knock and Bell played his first game in 3 months (who knows how long he’ll last??) and it’s not accurate to say that injuries aren’t an excuse. They’ve been a pretty prominent factor in the last 4 years and it’s down to McCall constantly handing out contracts to perma crocks.

As for the players not buying into Kerr. I’ve not seen the players down tools or look like the can’t be arsed. I’ve seen some pretty poor individual performances in the last few weeks but nothing that tells me that they don’t like what Kerr is doing. Saying that they’re not buying into his tactics is nonsense considering Kerr has said a few times that he won’t be making changes to the way we play. Last night he switched things because of the conditions and the games prior to that he played 4-4-2 because of injuries and a suspension. I’ve no doubts that he wants to use the 4-3-3 that has worked this season but he’s not had the chance to do so recently.

Granted we’re not in good form but we’re still 10 points above 9th so it’s premature to say we’re in a relegation scrap. If our form keep up we will be but all it takes is a couple of results and suddenly we’re back on track.

I don’t feel that sorry for Kerr in the sense that he actively sought this job out and made the case for him being the best man for the job. He then set out his plan and requested McArdle for an assistant. He wasn’t given the job out of the blue and told to take McArdle and get on with it. What I do feel sorry for him is that the squad as a whole he’s inherited isn’t big enough to sustain a play off push nor is it actually good enough. Muirhead and Roscoe played brilliantly against Dundee Utd and I think that bought them a bit of time tbh. One of them has to go and it’ll likely be Muirhead given Roscoe is younger, on a 2 year deal and at least showed promise with Alloa.

The comparisons to Mark Roberts are very lazy tbh and hold absolutely no weight. Kerr doesn’t exactly have the same personality as someone like McCall did but he explains his thinking behind things and doesn’t simply make excuses. Same can’t be said for Roberts.

Not sure why the comparisons to Roberts are lazy. Both Kerr and Roberts were popular players with the fans, had similar backgrounds in football and  were appointed out of the blue having not really stood as the next manager in waiting. Both appointed there mate although I think Whyte has more of a track record in the game than  McCardle. Both setups are having to learn it all as no experience in to assist. I would say both management teams are very similar although I hope Kerr goes on to build a better team and have more success with Ayr 

[HMIP]

 

18 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

There’s so many things wrong with this it’s unreal.

Yes we ran over the top of Partick and Alloa but they’re sitting 9th and 10th in the league so it’s to be expected. The 3-0 game against Arbroath came around as we were in brilliant form and we blew them away. However it’s pretty clear to see that Arbroath are a good side and with the conditions yesterday it was never going to be an easy game.

You’ve made such a big deal over our injuries not being as bad as they are when we’ve still got 2 players out for the rest of the season and Kerr confirming last night that Kelly took a knock. Add to the fact that Doolan is still injured, Forrest is apparently nursing a knock and Bell played his first game in 3 months (who knows how long he’ll last??) and it’s not accurate to say that injuries aren’t an excuse. They’ve been a pretty prominent factor in the last 4 years and it’s down to McCall constantly handing out contracts to perma crocks.

As for the players not buying into Kerr. I’ve not seen the players down tools or look like the can’t be arsed. I’ve seen some pretty poor individual performances in the last few weeks but nothing that tells me that they don’t like what Kerr is doing. Saying that they’re not buying into his tactics is nonsense considering Kerr has said a few times that he won’t be making changes to the way we play. Last night he switched things because of the conditions and the games prior to that he played 4-4-2 because of injuries and a suspension. I’ve no doubts that he wants to use the 4-3-3 that has worked this season but he’s not had the chance to do so recently.

Granted we’re not in good form but we’re still 10 points above 9th so it’s premature to say we’re in a relegation scrap. If our form keep up we will be but all it takes is a couple of results and suddenly we’re back on track.

I don’t feel that sorry for Kerr in the sense that he actively sought this job out and made the case for him being the best man for the job. He then set out his plan and requested McArdle for an assistant. He wasn’t given the job out of the blue and told to take McArdle and get on with it. What I do feel sorry for him is that the squad as a whole he’s inherited isn’t big enough to sustain a play off push nor is it actually good enough. Muirhead and Roscoe played brilliantly against Dundee Utd and I think that bought them a bit of time tbh. One of them has to go and it’ll likely be Muirhead given Roscoe is younger, on a 2 year deal and at least showed promise with Alloa.

The comparisons to Mark Roberts are very lazy tbh and hold absolutely no weight. Kerr doesn’t exactly have the same personality as someone like McCall did but he explains his thinking behind things and doesn’t simply make excuses. Same can’t be said for Roberts.

If the Arbroath game could be viewed in isolation, your comments would have some merit.  But It would be nonsense to do so.  The players we have at our disposal are the same ones that we had a few weeks back and the drop off in performance individually and collectively is astonishing.  I don’t see how you can acknowledge we were in brilliant form a few weeks back with the same group of players then ignore where we are right now.   Murdoch is a huge blow, but Adams and Doolan are no more than back ups.  Doolan in particular didn’t look fit for the glue factory, so to suddenly offer his absence as being in any way significant is ridiculous.

The hard fact is that Cameron has a woeful record of managerial appointments.  Reid did a decent job and McCall was a lucky guess, but Shanks, Watt and Roberts we’re unqualified disasters.  The parallels with Roberts are blatantly obvious and I find it hard to believe that Cameron has once again teamed up a rookie manager with an assistant who has zero experience of managing or coaching professional players.

[D'Jaffo]

Not sure why the comparisons to Roberts are lazy. Both Kerr and Roberts were popular players with the fans, had similar backgrounds in football and  were appointed out of the blue having not really stood as the next manager in waiting. Both appointed there mate although I think Whyte has more of a track record in the game than  McCardle. Both setups are having to learn it all as no experience in to assist. I would say both management teams are very similar although I hope Kerr goes on to build a better team and have more success with Ayr 

From what I know Roberts and White weren’t mates. Or at least they weren’t mates at the end.

Kerr hasn’t just appointed McArdle to give his pal a job. He’s worked with the guy before so clearly knows more than we do as to how good he is.

From what I remember there was no interview process when Roberts was appointed. It was lazy from Cameron who at the time was definitely penny pinching as he probably thought someone would buy the club pretty quickly.

[D'Jaffo]

 
If the Arbroath game could be viewed in isolation, your comments would have some merit.  But It would be nonsense to do so.  The players we have at our disposal are the same ones that we had a few weeks back and the drop off in performance individually and collectively is astonishing.  I don’t see how you can acknowledge we were in brilliant form a few weeks back with the same group of players then ignore where we are right now.   Murdoch is a huge blow, but Adams and Doolan are no more than back ups.  Doolan in particular didn’t look fit for the glue factory, so to suddenly offer his absence as being in any way significant is ridiculous.
The hard fact is that Cameron has a woeful record of managerial appointments.  Reid did a decent job and McCall was a lucky guess, but Shanks, Watt and Roberts we’re unqualified disasters.  The parallels with Roberts are blatantly obvious and I find it hard to believe that Cameron has once again teamed up a rookie manager with an assistant who has zero experience of managing or coaching professional players.

Adams was our first choice centre back mate. In fact I believe McCall hailed him as the best penalty box defender in the league. Muirhead and Roscoe started off well as I said but that has quickly turned bad.

Murdoch being out injured wouldn’t be as bad if Kerr was able to stay fit but he clearly didn’t. All it takes is 2 or 3 injuries and we’re in trouble. Especially in midfield.

And you’re tagging McCall as a “lucky guess” just to try and diminish Cameron when it actual fact it proved to be a terrific appointment. He didn’t pluck him out of thin air, he came with glowing references from two other managers.

[Guest]

Terrible conditions last night and I actually thought both teams did their best to play football as best they could. 

Arbroath were the better team for me but what annoyed me most was Ayr's inability to have a shot at goal in the first half when we had a gale force wind at our backs. Ironically the pre match warm up had McGuffie & McCowan rattling in strikes from all ranges and angles but of course neither were involved in the first half.

Nothing against Houston but again I prefer seeing Geggan at RB with a forward player such as Forrest ahead of him as Houston just can't link play the same way in which Forrest or McCowan can do, as such it also nullifies Moffat and Moore to an extent when neither of the aforementioned are playing.

It's hard to actually evaluate performances last night but Doohan was outstanding and saved our bacon with that injury time save.

Getting to the referee, I thought he was an absolute abysmal and although having a few absolutely shocking decisions against ourselves he also had a couple against Arbroath as well, especially the one where Muirhead cleared it off the line with his knee but the idiot gave us a goal kick instead of a corner to Arbroath.

Basically he was a complete cretin.

As I say Arbroath totally deserved their point and I wouldn't have grudged them three, however my one annoyance was with that tosser McKenna running up to the Ayr fans giving it the shooshing motion and the get it up you stuff when nobody had abused either him or anyone else. Totally unprofessional, totally uncalled for and something which we really need to get out of our game. The authorities wonder why certain people throw objects or shout abuse at players then maybe they should be looking at the actions of certain players who are actively inciting the paying customer and maybe they would get their answer. It's just uncalled for and I wouldn't be happy if my own team did it.

Anyway, kudos to the Arbroath fans who made that long trip and hopefully we can get back to winning ways on Saturday as the Alloa match has now become massive...............

Edited December 11, 2019 by WATTOO