Scottish Cup 4th Round Dra'

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Livi's average attendance is inflated by away crowds this season though, they get similar numbers through the home gate to Raith, a game between those two would be lucky to break 1,800 IMO. A "shite draw" is entirely a subjective thing, I really don't know why this has annoyed you.

You can say what you want about inflation, but it would be clearly more than what they get every week.

A “shite draw” is indeed subjective, but the reasons given have been quite comfortably shut down. It hasn’t ‘annoyed me’ at all, that’s another typical comment thrown about when said poster has no valid argument.

[stevoraith]

Are you just going to keep banging away at the keyboard until someone agrees with you?

Because literally nobody has yet.

I'll have another go at pointing out how ridiculous your arguments are.

 

1 hour ago, Tarmo Kink said:

So Motherwell, Dundee, Ayr, Partick Thistle, Alloa? Are these ‘winnable’ or ‘will generate some cash’? The answer is neither.

I got the 25 number from the amount of teams in the draw that are either above you (so should be expected to beat you) or in the same league as you (so should surely be shite tie considering you play them 4 times a year?) and high risk/low reward ties like Auchinleck and Bonnyrigg.

 

Motherwell- haven't played them in years so would generate some interest in the fan base, couple of thousand extra home fans than Livi- not a shite draw.

Dundee- averaging over 5k home supporters in the championship, used to have some real grudge matches with them in the not too distant past, haven't played them in a few years, good away day- not a shit draw

Partick- again not played in a few years, they're not playing well, definitely winnable.  Not a shit draw

Alloa- shit away day but winnable tie- not a shit draw.

Anyone in the same league as us- a bit boring but considering we're more or less top of the league we are capable of beating them all- not a shit draw.

Non-league teams- haven't played them in decades (if ever), strong favourites to win, new away day- not a shit draw.

 

So you are wrong about every assumption you have made there.

 

59 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

 I made a mockery of the so-called thought process behind his comment and several no-mark posters have come on the thread drowning in their own tears because they know it’s true. It’s simple stuff really.
 

 

You didn't really make a mokery of it though because everybody else that has posted so far agrees with the logic and thinks you're having a bit of a 'mare.

Love the "no mark poster" comment though.  Good way to prove your point- "I spend more of my time posting on P&B so I'm right."

Aye nae bother sad sack.

 

35 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

Except that you (like the other fan) have randomly excluded sides like Motherwell and Ayr which brings you up to 16 out of 31 possible teams. That’s the absolute minimum amount of ‘shite draws’ you can get by that logic and you’re already at over half of the teams.

 

That’s before you add in that Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts against Raith isn’t really going to be a bumper crowd, and that Auchinleck and Bonnyrigg are ‘low crowd’ games coming with high risk.

 

You’re better off just admitting that you’re shite, and aren’t going to win the game rather that attempting to have a Falkirk-esque crowd dig. If you care equally about what the club makes from a cup tie as you do about the result, then you’re doing it entirely wrong.

 

 

 

Yes, that’ll be why I’m totally rubbishing the ‘fans’ argument. Solid logic. Our ‘lack of fans’ is also more than your amount of fans as well, but nice try. You’re obviously still feeling the side effects of being dotted by Rab.

Just for completeness, Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs all have average home attendances in the region of 15k and all would bring at least a couple of thousand away fans.

That's a bumper crowd when you have been used to league one crowds for three years. therefor- not a shite draw.

 

And the whole point of the post from the first guy who brought this up (which wasn't me btw) was that we KNOW we aren't going to win these games.  So if we can't get through then at least making some money would be some compensation.

So it's not that we care equally about how much we make as the result, it's that if the result doesn't go our way then at least there's some other form of compensation.

 

You didn't rubbish anyones argument, and your argument is not solid logic.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Are you just going to keep banging away at the keyboard until someone agrees with you? Because literally nobody has yet. I'll have another go at pointing out how ridiculous your arguments are.  

 

 

 

So Motherwell, Dundee, Ayr, Partick Thistle, Alloa? Are these ‘winnable’ or ‘will generate some cash’? The answer is neither.  I got the 25 number from the amount of teams in the draw that are either above you (so should be expected to beat you) or in the same league as you (so should surely be shite tie considering you play them 4 times a year?) and high risk/low reward ties like Auchinleck and Bonnyrigg.

 

 

 

 

Motherwell- haven't played them in years so would generate some interest in the fan base, couple of thousand extra home fans than Livi- not a shite draw. Dundee- averaging over 5k home supporters in the championship, used to have some real grudge matches with them in the not too distant past, haven't played them in a few years, good away day- not a shit draw Partick- again not played in a few years, they're not playing well, definitely winnable.  Not a shit draw Alloa- shit away day but winnable tie- not a shit draw.

Anyone in the same league as us- a bit boring but considering we're more or less top of the league we are capable of beating them all- not a shit draw.

Non-league teams- haven't played them in decades (if ever), strong favourites to win, new away day- not a shit draw.

 

So you are wrong about every assumption you have made there.

 

Just for completeness, Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs all have average home attendances in the region of 15k and all would bring at least a couple of thousand away fans.

That's a bumper crowd when you have been used to league one crowds for three years. therefor- not a shite draw.

 

And the whole point of the post from the first guy who brought this up (which wasn't me btw) was that we KNOW we aren't going to win these games.  So if we can't get through then at least making some money would be some compensation.

So it's not that we care equally about how much we make as the result, it's that if the result doesn't go our way then at least there's some other form of compensation.

 

You didn't rubbish anyones argument, and your argument is not solid logic.

 

 

This is just rambling nonsense. All you’ve done is take every other side apart from Livingston and made up a reason why they aren’t a shite draw. You could do the exact same for Livi. Absolutely no logic provided here.

 

Just simply accept that you’re shite, and are going to lose the game. There’s no need to add in the crowdwanking. Come back when you have a logical argument.

 

Edit - and yeah, Honest Man thinking I’ve ‘had a mare’ is possibly the worst evidence to back up an argument I’ve ever seen. This is the same guy who had a public tear-stained meltdown on the Heads Gone thread over Rab creating accounts to dot him. Then it turned out it wasn’t actually Rab and Honest Man still persisted with accusing him in a cringeworthy, flapping episode.

 

[The Moonster]

17 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

You can say what you want about inflation, but it would be clearly more than what they get every week.

A “shite draw” is indeed subjective, but the reasons given have been quite comfortably shut down. It hasn’t ‘annoyed me’ at all, that’s another typical comment thrown about when said poster has no valid argument.

 

Not by much, which is essentially what the Raith fans are saying about the draw (likely to lose, won't much more money than a regular home game therefore they feel it's not a good draw - an entirely reasonable outlook to have).

Okay, you're not annoyed. You haven't "shut down" anything though, you've offered an opinion which by the looks of it the majority disagree with.

[Scary Bear]

Hearts or Hibs would see about 5000-6000 punters at Starks Park. Last time we played Aberdeen at Starks was 2010 and there were 7000 there. Any of those away would probably be bigger crowds than that.

How many will be at Livi v Raith?

As a League 1 club we have pretty much no chance of winning the Scottish Cup. This season it was all about a payday.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Scary Bear

[eez-eh]

30 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

You can say what you want about inflation, but it would be clearly more than what they get every week.

A “shite draw” is indeed subjective, but the reasons given have been quite comfortably shut down. It hasn’t ‘annoyed me’ at all, that’s another typical comment thrown about when said poster has no valid argument.

 

It’s entirely relevant though. Livi’s home crowd will be similar to Raith’s so the crowd really won’t be that much more than what Raith get every week.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Not by much, which is essentially what the Raith fans are saying about the draw (likely to lose, won't much more money than a regular home game therefore they feel it's not a good draw - an entirely reasonable outlook to have).
Okay, you're not annoyed. You haven't "shut down" anything though, you've offered an opinion which by the looks of it the majority disagree with.

I’ve offered the opinion that by their logic, around half of the draw is apparently shite for them. I’ve been met by several posters with different opinions, but providing no valid arguments to back up their opinion. Pretty simple stuff.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

It’s entirely relevant though. Livi’s home crowd will be similar to Raith’s so the crowd really won’t be that much more than what Raith get every week.

Will it? They haven’t had a league crowd below 2,300 this season, so I’d suggest that’s another pretty invalid argument.

They’ve had 2 low home crowds in the League Cup, but that is effectively pre-season, and one of the games was against Berwick.

[The Moonster]

Just now, Tarmo Kink said:

 

I’ve offered the opinion that by their logic, around half of the draw is apparently shite for them. I’ve been met by several posters with different opinions, but providing no valid arguments to back up their opinion. Pretty simple stuff.

 

So what if half the draw is apparently shite for them? I'd say there was probably 3 quarters of the draw that would be shite for my club, it doesn't mean I'm having a dig at ICT or Livi or any other club I deem a shite draw. You've taken that comment personally for some reason.

[Scary Bear]

2 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

I’ve offered the opinion that by their logic, around half of the draw is apparently shite for them. I’ve been met by several posters with different opinions, but providing no valid arguments to back up their opinion. Pretty simple stuff.

 

I suppose if you’re counting Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts - the 3rd, 4th and 5th biggest teams in Scotland as rubbish draws, then 90% is right enough.

For us, St Johnstone, Dundee and Dundee United are also good draws.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

I suppose if you’re counting Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts - the 3rd, 4th and 5th biggest teams in Scotland as rubbish draws, then 90% is right enough. For us, St Johnstone, Dundee and Dundee United are also good draws.

 

 

By saying St. Johnstone, Dundee, Dundee United is a good draw, you are disagreeing with the other Raith fan which is fair enough.

 

I said ‘around half of the draw’ which does not include Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen. But that’s a solid deflection by you, back to throwaway comment I previously made and described as inaccurate. 0 valid arguments from you once again, and until anyone can provide one this will go round in the same loop.

 

 

So what if half the draw is apparently shite for them? I'd say there was probably 3 quarters of the draw that would be shite for my club, it doesn't mean I'm having a dig at ICT or Livi or any other club I deem a shite draw. You've taken that comment personally for some reason.

 

If by ‘taken that comment personally’ you mean shut down a totally lazy, stupid comment with numbers and facts, then yeah, I have.

[eez-eh]

3 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

Will it? They haven’t had a league crowd below 2,300 this season, so I’d suggest that’s another pretty invalid argument.

They’ve had 2 low home crowds in the League Cup, but that is effectively pre-season, and one of the games was against Berwick.

 

Teams Livingston have played at home this season:

Motherwell, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts, Rangers.

All of who bring a big away support, ergo the point stands about the crowd not being much if at all any bigger than what Raith are used to. Hence they’re quite entitled to say it’s a shite draw due it having a fairly small chance of progression, not being a money spinner and not stirring up much interest.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Teams Livingston have played at home this season:
Motherwell, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hearts, Rangers.
All of who bring a big away support, ergo the point stands about the crowd not being much if at all any bigger than what Raith are used to. Hence they’re quite entitled to say it’s a shite draw due it having a fairly small chance of progression, not being a money spinner and not stirring up much interest.

St Mirren and Motherwell bringing big away supports is certainly new to me. Or is this more made up logic?

[Aim Here]

6 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

St Mirren and Motherwell bringing big away supports is certainly new to me. Or is this more made up logic?

For reference in this discussion, Motherwell more or less filled 2 sections of the Easter Road south stand two days ago, which I'd estimate as about 800 people, give or take, for a bog-standard league game on a rainy Saturday afternoon. How that translates to a cup tie at Stark's Park, and what you consider 'big away support' is up to you.

[eez-eh]

Just now, Tarmo Kink said:

St Mirren and Motherwell bringing big away supports is certainly new to me. Or is this more made up logic?

 

Enough to give a false indication of Livi’s home crowd, yes. I’m not going to start trying to find away crowd figures that might not even exist anywhere, but St Mirren always bring a big crowd to Somerset (Livingston isn’t much further away for them) and Motherwell are a biggish club who made a good start to the season.

Looking at last season: two Saturday 3PM kick-offs at home to St Johnstone and Hamilton had crowds of 1615 and 1342 respectively. That gives a far better indication of what Livi will get for a game like this.

And it’s not crowd wanking to point out that it’s a shite draw for them because of that. Let it go ffs.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Enough to give a false indication of Livi’s home crowd, yes. I’m not going to start trying to find away crowd figures that might not even exist anywhere, but St Mirren always bring a big crowd to Somerset (Livingston isn’t much further away for them) and Motherwell are a biggish club who made a good start to the season.
Looking at last season: two Saturday 3PM kick-offs at home to St Johnstone and Hamilton had crowds of 1615 and 1342 respectively. That gives a far better indication of what Livi will get for a game like this.
And it’s not crowd wanking to point out that it’s a shite draw for them because of that. Let it go ffs.

Paisley is closer to Ayr and has very good transport links to Ayr. Livingston is further away, and St. Mirren don’t have huge away supports anyway. 0 valid evidence.

For reference in this discussion, Motherwell more or less filled 2 sections of the Easter Road south stand two days ago, which I'd estimate as about 800 people, give or take, for a bog-standard league game on a rainy Saturday afternoon. How that translates to a cup tie at Stark's Park, and what you consider 'big away support' is up to you.

If Hibs away in the league is ‘bog-standard’ then what is a cup tie against Raith? 0 valid evidence.

[Scary Bear]

23 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

By saying St. Johnstone, Dundee, Dundee United is a good draw, you are disagreeing with the other Raith fan which is fair enough.

 

I said ‘around half of the draw’ which does not include Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen. But that’s a solid deflection by you, back to throwaway comment I previously made and described as inaccurate. 0 valid arguments from you once again, and until anyone can provide one this will go round in the same loop.

 

 

 

 

If by ‘taken that comment personally’ you mean shut down a totally lazy, stupid comment with numbers and facts, then yeah, I have.

Yeeeeehhhh...you’ve definitely gone to a heads gone place now.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

Note to self - Avoid reading P&B next time Tarmo Stink has a day off.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Yeeeeehhhh...you’ve definitely gone to a heads gone place now.
 

Another poster who has nothing to back up their argument resorts to ‘you’ve had a headsgone’.

Shut down with absolute ease.

[eez-eh]

2 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

Paisley is closer to Ayr and has very good transport links to Ayr. Livingston is further away, and St. Mirren don’t have huge away supports anyway. 0 valid evidence.




If Hibs away in the league is ‘bog-standard’ then what is a cup tie against Raith? 0 valid evidence.

 

Congrats - you’ve now reached peak levels of tragically defending your argument at all costs while intentionally missing the point and selectively picking at quotes.