Sir Tarmo Kink Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Given the number of outright lies from the leave campaign about how easy a deal would be it's ridiculous to suggest nobody could have been misled.People will be misled every election. Lets have indyref2, 2nd Brexit ‘confirmatory’ referendum and a second referendum for ALL future referendums incase people are ‘misled’ or ‘change their mind’. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous logic and anyone pushing a second referendum is a fucking loonball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Tarmo Kink said: People will be misled every election. Lets have indyref2, 2nd Brexit ‘confirmatory’ referendum and a second referendum for ALL future referendums incase people are ‘misled’ or ‘change their mind’. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous logic and anyone pushing a second referendum is a fucking loonball. Eat your cereal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I'm always intrigued at the line of thought that says 'giving everyone a vote on this important issue is undemocratic' 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: I'm always intrigued at the line of thought that says 'giving everyone a vote on this important issue is undemocratic' Aye. The most significant decisions in a lifetime but making sure they're right or even wanted anymore is loonball stuff. We should really have a 'This decision must be accepted without argument and never talked of again' clause inserted into the drafting laws for these referendums. That of course would be very democratic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Jock Tamson's Bairns?We've had more influence than we've been entitled to, wha's like us, eh? [emoji3526] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Stv debate tonight will be a shambles.They will end up talking about devolved matters only 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Londonwell said: I can't make it unfortunately. If you get the time post up your thoughts after if you would, cheers. It was okay. Didn't learn anything but was selected to ask a question on a second independence referendum. There was no audience participation apart from the questions. The Tory truly is a paper candidate. His answers were absolutely pathetic. The Brexit candidate is a moron. The Lib Dem has blocked me on Twitter for requesting he stops sending me election material. I asked him about this but he made a joke that I could plaster the leaflets on my bathroom wall. The Labour guy was okay. Ian Blackford had all the soundbites but was laughed at when a question about devolving powers to local areas came up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MixuFixit said: implying Labour's manifesto is so outlandishly radical that it would be more at home in a student election when it's actually just middle of the road northern european social democracy but OK. First up this is not a generic northern European country, someone sticking Norways gun laws into a UK manifesto would be considered batshit locally. But more to the point the manifesto is just drivel. Take the energy and environment section, it came from a vote on the conference floor back in September calling for decarobonisation by 2030. At the time I called it nonsense and it is ludicrous to claim this is a normal plan for modern Europe. Some of the highlights include calling for 7000 off shore wind turbines by 2030, the largest off shore windfarm in the world is Walney Extension off the Thames, a great achievement by UK industry. 87 turbines. Biggest farm in the world, 87. We would need just short of 100 times that in 10 years. Walney Extension began in 2014, building on existing infrastructure and planning permissions completed in 2018. We would need to find someone to put these 7000 wind turbines as off shore locations are limited, and where they exist with shallow enough waters, much fo the rest of the sand banks will be in the wind shadow of any windfarms that have been built. It would require training (i.e. through uni and in many cases post graduate) staff dozens to perhaps a 100 times the size of the current relevant agencies governing environmental, legal and other apsects of over site. It would require building something like 100 times the current global fleet of off shore support ships. It would require a huge expansion in fabrication facilities (close to 100 time current global capacity), sourcing the rare earth elements involved (which would likely be constrained in some cases). Then the huge changes and upgrades to the entire grid infrastructure to handle the variability of power delivery and voltage (not impossible.... perhaps but by god one of the biggest civil engineering projects in human history alone, aside from the off shore work). Expanding the labour force by 100 times. Most UK citizens are not too keen on moving so there would be costs involved in encouraging people to move. Serious questions if we have anything like the scale of skillable people currently out of work (lots of this will need graduates etc). Thats just a very brief over view of one promise without looking at the endless legal wranglings that would simply have no court space. The plan is also to ban all combustion vehicles by 2030. Quote Conservatives have committed to ending new sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2040. Labour will aim for 2030. But they also hint they want to expand airports? Quote Labour recognises the Davies Commission’s assessment of pressures on airport capacity in the South East. Any expansion of airports must pass our tests on air quality, noise pollution, climate change obligations and countrywide benefits. Its a fudge between pro airport expansion unions and the slacktivists who vote against this stuff on conference floor. But lets pause, ban all combustion vehicles by 2030? There are a handful of experimental electric HGVs globally. We will have the fabrication capacity, the energy distribution network, the power lines laid across to every brickies yard and every motorway service station to take the huge load that will come from this demand on the grid? What of low income drivers, people who drive cars but live in flats with on road parking. Remote rural people. They are going to afford whatever the cost of the 2030 Tesla model whatever is? Then what about the UK motor industry. All the manufacturers of components that will not be needed will be out of jobs, transmissions, brakes etc. And is there enough lithium and other metals globally for this let alone with outher countries ramping up their demand? On rail: Quote We will implement a full, rolling programme of electrification. They are committed to huge, expensive and disruptive civil engineering projects already. Where will the money and human resource come for this? Quote Targeted bursaries will be available to women, BAME people, care leavers, ex-armed forces personnel, and people with disabilities to encourage them to take up climate apprenticeships – the STEM of the future. Apprenticeships are the "STEM of the future". That was so written by activists who do not know what an apprenticeship or STEM is. Quote A thriving steel industry will be vital to the Green Industrial Revolution. Labour will support our steel through public procurement, taking action on industrial energy prices They plan staggering spending on energy infrastructure and to cut the cost of energy. Quote , Labour will create an innovation nation, setting a target for 3% of GDP to be spent on research and development (R&D) by 2030 Massive increase in corporate tax. Ending the R&D tax break (its in their grey book) but some how mathemagically we will have 3% R&D spending by 2030? Quote . We will upgrade almost all of the UK’s 27 million homes to the highest energy-efficiency standards, reducing the average household energy bill by £417 per household per year by 2030 On top of the mindblowing capital spending they plan and god knows where the human resource will come from for the rest of it, they will train up and pay for near enough every home to have a huge upgrade in energy efficiency by 2030? Just their energy and environment part is chock of contradictions and batshit promises. The only study I can find mentioned was on airport expansion (the Davies Report). None of this is coming from detailed studies, analysis and planning. Its just pulled from arses. Its drivel for the easily gulled. The whole manifesto is full of this shite. Edited December 3, 2019 by dorlomin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 hours ago, WATTOO said: On the contrary, if the Tories do indeed get a majority and they pursue their favoured form of "extreme capitalism" to the detriment of Scotland and your average working punter, then you can rest assured that the SNP will go from strength to strength and independence will become inevitable.......... 8 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: What extreme capitalism, exactly? On a world view political/economic spectrum of 1-100, where 1. is sell your own young into slavery, no welfare state capitalism and 100. is from each according to their ability to each according to their need communism, all post-war UK governments - Conservative and Labour- have hovered about the half way mark. In fact, they're probably about 48-52! 2 hours ago, beefybake said: A moronic construct, and a diversion from what is being said. Why Beefcake, my little red stalker? Why is what I said a diversion? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 hours ago, welshbairn said: What do you suggest Corbyn should do? Try to negotiate a better deal while saying he doesn't want one and will campaign against it? Or say he'll back whatever deal he gets before negotiating it? The polling I showed you shows what he has been doing for the past 3 and a half years has made Labour top of the idiot pile that contains Swinson and Johnson, in terms of Europe policy! A week and a half out from the election and you are wailing "what else could he have done"? Not pissed three and a half years away with dithering and incoherence. His tepid "remain" campaign followed by demanding the triggering of Article 50 the day after the referendum has been spoken about often enough to need no further discussion. He has spent the rest of the time dragging his party all over the shop with their Europe policy that he has lost both sides on the most divisive issue of the day. The "what should he have done" horse bolted so long ago its grand kids are approaching retirement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said: It was okay. Didn't learn anything but was selected to ask a question on a second independence referendum. There was no audience participation apart from the questions. The Tory truly is a paper candidate. His answers were absolutely pathetic. The Brexit candidate is a moron. The Lib Dem has blocked me on Twitter for requesting he stops sending me election material. I asked him about this but he made a joke that I could plaster the leaflets on my bathroom wall. The Labour guy was okay. Ian Blackford had all the soundbites but was laughed at when a question about devolving powers to local areas came up. Good man, thanks for that. The Tory lad was interviewed on STV as part of their package on the constituency last night, worth a watch if you haven’t seen it- hilariously bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 'Scandal brewing' as thousands of suspects released Quote More than 93,000 suspected violent criminals and sex offenders have been released without restrictions by police in England and Wales since 2017, figures obtained by BBC Newsnight show. People suspected of offences including rape and murder have been among those "Released Under Investigation" (RUI). Richard Miller of the Law Society said a "major scandal" was brewing over the way RUIs are being used. The Home Office said the cases must be regularly reviewed and managed. In 2017, the rules on pre-charge bail changed, making it more difficult for police to keep suspects on bail beyond 28 days. The overuse of RUIs, Mr Miller said, is the unintended consequence of the changes. Courts and probation services are a mess. Real victims in our society from this failure. Perhaps recent events will help the impact of this cut through the political noise, though I am dubious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tarmo Kink Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I'm always intrigued at the line of thought that says 'giving everyone a vote on this important issue is undemocratic'If only we’d given everyone a vote on this important issue....Oh yeah, we did, and they voted leave. Leave means leave. Get over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, dorlomin said: The polling I showed you shows what he has been doing for the past 3 and a half years has made Labour top of the idiot pile that contains Swinson and Johnson, in terms of Europe policy! A week and a half out from the election and you are wailing "what else could he have done"? Not pissed three and a half years away with dithering and incoherence. His tepid "remain" campaign followed by demanding the triggering of Article 50 the day after the referendum has been spoken about often enough to need no further discussion. He has spent the rest of the time dragging his party all over the shop with their Europe policy that he has lost both sides on the most divisive issue of the day. The "what should he have done" horse bolted so long ago its grand kids are approaching retirement. So no suggestion on how the Labour proposal could be improved. Thought not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: So no suggestion on how the Labour proposal could be improved. Thought not. You clearly missed the subtext of "not fucked up for 3 and a half years" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Some people voted Leave on the basis that we would have a relationship with the EU along the lines of Norway or Switzerland.On a 52-48 vote that would have been the compromise position - one that I believe the majority of voters - Leave or Remain - would have supported.Unfortunately the spineless May ignored that, choosing instead to appease the tail wagging the dog ERG - now the lunatics have taken over the asylum.If the Tories do get a majority then hell mend those arseholes who vote for them and then complain about them afterwards. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 No. It's not.Yep. Every election/referendum has loads of scaremongering, propaganda and lies attached to it. The result of the referendum has to be delivered whether you agree with it or not, as that’s democracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I'll be honest Dunning Kruger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dorlomin said: You clearly missed the subtext of "not fucked up for 3 and a half years" I thought we were asking about which party has the best Brexit policy for the oncoming election. Nobody shined in glory for the last 3 and a half years, the Government and Opposition were equally dysfunctional, but that's irrelevant now, insofar as Brexit is concerned. Again, how could Labour's policy be improved? Edited December 3, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I thought we were asking about which party has the best Brexit policy for the oncoming electio SNP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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