General Election 2019 - AND IT’S LIVE!

[pandarilla]

Do you genuinely believe this ridiculous narrative chief?

Genuinely? That the Labour party has a major problem with anti-semitism and that Corbyn is pretty dangerous for not dealing with it?

Like genuinely?

^^Scrambling for relevance. 

Are you going to answer this question? I asked you a fairly simple question a couple of weeks back and for some reason you ignored that one too.

[dorlomin]

Just now, Kejan said:

 

FFS Labour should have made sure the c**t was booked before releasing their boy to Neil. 

That must be the shittest comms team on point for a major party in years. 

[dorlomin]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

Are you going to answer this question? I asked you a fairly simple question a couple of weeks back and for some reason you ignored that one too.

If you have any evidence anything that was posted was incorrect, feel encouraged to post it. I have zero interest in dealing with your pissing the bed and crying, put up or shut up. 

[pandarilla]

If you have any evidence anything that was posted was incorrect, feel encouraged to post it. I have zero interest in dealing with your pissing the bed and crying, put up or shut up. 

[emoji23][emoji23]

All you do is post shit and run away.

"But where's your sources???" What a bell-end of a poster.

[Baxter Parp]

On 25/11/2019 at 22:43, Pet Jeden said:

What point are you trying to make? That the trams fiasco was nothing to do with the SNP? Well, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the ever canny John Swinney  who kept the whole thing at least a barge pole length away. But the flaw in what you have eventually come up with, is that whoever has made that wiki entry (you, by any chance?) has been a bit sloppy with their language.

I've seen some brainless posts on here but the idea that someone might deliberately change a wikipedia page in order to win an argument on here takes the brainless biscuit.

On 25/11/2019 at 22:43, Pet Jeden said:

Holyrood could refuse to facilitate the project, e.g. by refusing to extend funding.

The transport bills required to build the trams went through the Scottish Parliament in 2004, if those were rescinded the whole thing would have to have been cancelled.  They would have no legal right to build. So far so wrong.

On 25/11/2019 at 22:43, Pet Jeden said:

 But it was not for them to cancel it. It was an Edinburgh  Council project and they could either have done it better or cancelled it at any time before contracts were signed in Dec 2007.Or even after. Now, guess who was in coalition control of Edinburgh council from May 2007?

 March 2007: First work on Edinburgh’s tram project gets under way in Leith, with the scheme now due for completion in February 2011.

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/edinburgh-trams-timeline-of-twists-and-turns-1-2229133

If you just assume you know f**k all and go and do some research, you'll get along so much better.

[dorlomin]

Quote

The second group, which is considerably larger,
consists of those that express antisemitic tropes and
conspiracy theories. Antisemitism and conspiratorial
ideas are closely entwined. The idea that Jewish
people have undue influence on world politics and a
secret agenda is an age-old trope. It is often promoted
by claiming that Jewish people dominate in bank
ownership and the media or that Jewish people have
deep political connections.
While there are several other classic antisemitic
tropes, we found the idea of control and variations
on this theme are the most common. A single
statement can often make use of several tropes
at once. The conspiratorial idea of Jewish people
having undue influence is, for example, often
combined with the allegation of disloyalty to their
own country

 

The most common trope regarding undue influence propagated by left-wing antisemites is the suggestion that the “Zionist lobby”, “Israel lobby” or even Mossad are somehow steering UK domestic politics to such an extent that political leaders cannot be trusted. Words such as “Puppet masters” are also often used to describe these foreign powers. This conspiracy is often also symbolised by individuals such as the Rothschilds who have come to embody the idea of Jewish control for some on the left. The “Rothschild agenda” is therefore used as an analogy to the “Zionist lobby”.

Quote

In these groups we find those that deny or relativise that there is a problem with antisemitism on the left and those that make use of antisemitic tropes when discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict. Debates on antisemitism inevitably touch on the topic of Israel and Palestine. ‘Israel’ and ‘Palestine’ are unsurprisingly two of the most commonly occurring words in the dataset that we based this research on. Israel, like any other state, can be criticised for its policies, such as the controversial nation-state law passed in 2018. However, in the case of Israel such critique sometimes veils antisemitic ideas. In addition, the singular focus on criticism of Israel can in some instances indicate underlying antisemitic sentiment. A recurring discourse is the implicit or explicit blaming of Jews as a group and individually for the policies of the Israeli state, even Jews who are not citizens of Israel. Conversely, the conflation between Israel and Jewish people results in a fear that a more stringent definition of antisemitism would limit the possibility to critique the actions of the State of Israel.

Quote

Allegations of antisemitic speech are met with responses that antisemitism is worse somewhere else, often on the right, or is a less serious issue than, for example, Islamophobia. With left-wing accounts we often found the argument that antisemitism in Labour is given too much attention and that Islamophobia in the Conservative Party is a larger problem

Quote

In a House of Commons speech in April, MP for Stoke-on-Trent North (and former Deputy Director of HOPE not hate) Ruth Smeeth explained in no uncertain terms the deluge of antisemitism she had experienced from the left such as: “Hang yourself you vile treacherous Zionist Tory filth. You are a cancer of humanity”. The chair of the Jewish Labour Movement’s parliamentary group, Luciana Berger, has faced abhorrent abuse online simply for highlighting instances of antisemitism within the Labour movement.

https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/state-of-hate-2019-final-1.pdf

 

Firstly I would encourage all to read as much of this document as possible. It contains a mountain of information. I would especially encourage people to read the subsections on Islamophobia. Its a goddam education including very good statistics on the scale of Tory membership and  their Islamophobia. 

But we do not have many here defending that shite. 

What we do have is people trivialising or deflecting from the issues around the far left and antisemitism. I have highlighted a few relevant paragraphs and bolded a few statements on tropes I have seen used here recurrently. 

When elements of the Labour Party are being called out by serious and dedicated anti racism campaigners, when the parties procedures are being investigated by the Human Rights Commission its time to wake the f**k up. 

 

But but but but but but but the Tories whatabouttery is setting the lowest bar imaginable. They are a party of c***s who appeal to peoples base emotion, greed, fear, status and identity. 

When an interviewer asks you to condemn some shite about Rothschilds Zionists world  conspiracies, you do not mumble for half a minute about nothing then stumble upon "it should not be used". 

 

 

Its a fucking gimme, you knock it out the park with confidence: "Clearly unacceptable". 

This is the hill Momentum and friends have chosen to die on. They have taken the chances of a Labour government with them. 

[Baxter Parp]

Damn those nasty nats...oh wait.

 

[pandarilla]

Dorlomin it is one of the most obvious media creations in recent British political history. Last summer the BBC and sky led every day with a new story, essentially re-hashed versions of the exact same story, in order to force Corbyn to resign. It was so over the top it was embarrassing.

The clearest example was on the issue of the definition of anti-semitism, and the daily pressure applied to labour to accept it. The original author of the definition was so opposed to the add-ons relating to Israel that he opposed his own definition!

The far left do have an issue with using unhelpful anti-semitic tropes in internet discussions - but the blurred lines between any criticism of Israel and anti-semitism has been intentional and manipulative.

Meanwhile physical anti-semitic attacks and graffiti are on the rise across Europe - almost entirely carried out by the far right.

[G-MAN]

Kevin Rawlinson
The prime minister’s senior aide, Dominic Cummings, has resigned as a special adviser, according to a Cabinet Office source.

Cummings, who was a senior figure in the Vote Leave campaign before starting as an adviser to Boris Johnson in July. His appointment at No 10 came only four months after he was found in contempt of parliament for refusing to appear before MPs investigating false news stories during the EU referendum campaign.

Earlier today, he published a blog post warning pro-Brexit voters that a Conservative victory is not yet in the bag (see 5.16pm).

[alta-pete]

Ooft. Huge if true.

[Donathan]

Apparently he resigned so he's not covered by purdah, he'll be back after the election

[jock_the_squak]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

Damn those nasty nats...oh wait.

 

The Motherwell and Wishaw SNP campaign hub got vandalised last night as well

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/cops-probe-shock-snp-out-20973773

[BFTD]

11 hours ago, Donathan said:

Hearing from a couple of Tory activists in Alloa that they’re resigned to losing the Ochil and South Perthshire seat. John Nicolson expected to have a very big majority, perhaps even more than the 10,000 that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh won in by for the SNP in 2015.

You'd better not be at the wind up, or I will look for you, I will find you, and I will leave a flaming toley on your doorstep.

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

You'd better not be at the wind up, or I will look for you, I will find you, and I will leave a flaming toley on your doorstep.

 

The exact sentence I was told from two local party members I've personally known for years is that their MP, Luke Graham, has already thanked all the local dignitaries for his time in office and is making plans for post-parliament life.

[Pet Jeden]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

I've seen some brainless posts on here but the idea that someone might deliberately change a wikipedia page in order to win an argument on here takes the brainless biscuit.

The transport bills required to build the trams went through the Scottish Parliament in 2004, if those were rescinded the whole thing would have to have been cancelled.  They would have no legal right to build. So far so wrong.

 March 2007: First work on Edinburgh’s tram project gets under way in Leith, with the scheme now due for completion in February 2011.

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/edinburgh-trams-timeline-of-twists-and-turns-1-2229133

If you just assume you know f**k all and go and do some research, you'll get along so much better.

It was a council project. The council was SNP coalition from mid '07. Main contract awarded Dec '07. Despite prep work done on any preliminary contracts, Council could have cancelled whenever they wanted - admittedly gets more punitive as time passes. You don't know what you're spraffing about. In your eagerness to defend the SNP Government, you simply forgot it was an SNP coalition council, didn't you? Forget all the deflection. When you are in a hole, stop digging.

[sophia]

12 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

The council was SNP coalition

SNP Government,

you simply forgot it was an SNP coalition council

Lib dem seats 17

Labour seats 15

SNP seats 12

Only the SNP can fail here

 

 

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

It was a council project. The council was SNP coalition from mid '07. Main contract awarded Dec '07. Despite prep work done on any preliminary contracts, Council could have cancelled whenever they wanted - admittedly gets more punitive as time passes. You don't know what you're spraffing about. In your eagerness to defend the SNP Government, you simply forgot it was an SNP coalition council, didn't you? Forget all the deflection. When you are in a hole, stop digging.

Lolwut

[BFTD]

41 minutes ago, Donathan said:

The exact sentence I was told from two local party members I've personally known for years is that their MP, Luke Graham, has already thanked all the local dignitaries for his time in office and is making plans for post-parliament life.

Brings a tear to the eye.

Hopefully he's enjoyed his extended gap year with the po' folks and speaks kindly of the principality of Scotland upon his return to work.

[Pet Jeden]

21 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Lolwut

Yes. It was an SNP-Lib Dem coalition. What's your point?

[Londonwell]

1 hour ago, Donathan said:

 

The exact sentence I was told from two local party members I've personally known for years is that their MP, Luke Graham, has already thanked all the local dignitaries for his time in office and is making plans for post-parliament life.

Looking at the seat breakdown on the big Yougov poll tonight it has the Tories a % point ahead I believe, so perhaps closer than they think?