General Election 2019 - AND IT’S LIVE!

[anonanist]

Can't vote Tories since they've twice called general elections at a time when they've had a decent, 30ish majority in parliament to deliver Brexit (in 2016-17, and just a few weeks ago).

Can't vote SNP since they failed to vote for their own pro-customs union policy which would have delivered 'economic bridge', and are complicit in the mesh implants scandal.

Can't vote Labour because they've learned nothing from the mess they made of the public finances last time around and will just keep spending until we're forced into austerity again.

Can't vote Lib Democrats as their stance on the referenda is contradictory (no to indyref2, yet yes to Brexit2) and undemocratic (revoke A50), and break all promises at a whiff of power.

Brexit Party won't stand against my local Conservatory MP and are UKIP in disguise; UKIP are BNP in disguise; BNP are racists.

So if I vote it will either be to spoil the ballot paper or to support some local independent.

 

I'm at the point where I'd like to see direct democracy instead.  Which in practise might work something like:

5% of the electorate must support a petition for whatever change they would like to see; public consultation on question; referendum held on said issue/question; legal challenges to outcome of referendum; either Queen or the Queen to ratify result of referendum (give royal assent) once legal issues settled; civil servants to implement result of referendum. 

So keep local politicians at a community level, but no politicians required at a national level.

 

Also, I would like to see a series of advisory referenda before the next independence referendum, to decide on: monarchy/republic; euro/pound/thistle dollar; EU membership/EFTA membership; etc.  (In my opinion, if this had happened before the original indyref then Scots would have voted for independence because they would have known what they were in for.) 

With the outcome of these referenda decided as a 'settled will' of the Scottish people, Scots would know exactly what they were voting for in indyref2, and so it would avoid all the shambles we have seen in Westminster over the past several years, Scots would actually be more enfranchised into thinking of independence before indyref2 and, frankly, it would give the SNP something useful to do whilst waiting for Section 30 powers to be lent to the Scottish Parliament once again.   

 

Off I skulk.

[Mr Hahn]

3 minutes ago, anonanist said:

 

Also, I would like to see a series of advisory referenda before the next independence referendum, to decide on: monarchy/republic; euro/pound/thistle dollar; EU membership/EFTA membership; etc.  (In my opinion, if this had happened before the original indyref then Scots would have voted for independence because they would have known what they were in for.) 

 

Letting Scots choose what kind of country they'd like to live in? Good luck getting yoons on board with that one.

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, anonanist said:

Also, I would like to see a series of advisory referenda before the next independence referendum, to decide on: euro/pound/thistle dollar; EU membership/EFTA membership; etc.  (In my opinion, if this had happened before the original indyref then Scots would have voted for independence because they would have known what they were in for.) 

None of these decisions can be made before negotiations following a Yes vote. The monarchy question is an irrelevance that would cloud the issues and sow division, and can be addressed if necessary at a future date. 

[Cardinal Richelieu]

To the posters who keep reporting Malky3 - please stop it. You might not agree with his opinions (I certainly don't) but him posting them does not break any of the forum rules, including spamming. 

If you don't want to see any more of his posts (or anyone else's for that matter), remember you can hover over their profile picture and click the [Ignore] button. 

@Malky3 - if you want to quote several posters, you can do it in a single post by clicking the [+] button to the left of the

button beside each post you want to quote. 

Cheers. 

[Cerberus]

You’ll need something to pass the time with a 3 day weekend under Labour. You might as well beat a few off with your free broadband.

[ICTJohnboy]

Just caught up with Munchetty's interview with Johnson on Breakfast TV this morning.

Can't quite work out what was worse - her pathetic questions or his ludicrous answers. 

[welshbairn]

Good to see even the Sun are exposing Johnson's Trumpian scale disregard for the truth.

 

[Ross.]

47 minutes ago, anonanist said:

I'm at the point where I'd like to see direct democracy instead.  Which in practise might work something like:

I fully endorse this viewpoint, having spent the last 7 years watching in action, however, I'm not sure Scotland or the UK would make best use of it. Too many people view politics as something not for them and that would require a huge change in mindset or it would result in the minority who are switched on making politics even more of a "Something for only them". There would probably also have to be regulations on how many votes can be brought within a certain time. Given one of the most repeated lines in Scottish politics these days is "People are fed up with referendums", there is no way I can see something being put in place which might mean several happening every few months.

I struggle at times to keep up with them all here. Granted, that is partly because I am still not allowed to vote in them(I only have residency and work permission, not a full passport), but also because generally speaking, every quarter there are another 4 or 5 often completely unrelated votes happening. The Swiss are far more switched on politically than the folk back home, even they struggle at times to keep up with what they are being asked to decide on.

[Ross.]

35 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said:

To the posters who keep reporting Malky3 - please stop it. You might not agree with his opinions (I certainly don't) but him posting them does not break any of the forum rules, including spamming. 

If you don't want to see any more of his posts (or anyone else's for that matter), remember you can hover over their profile picture and click the [Ignore] button. 

@Malky3 - if you want to quote several posters, you can do it in a single post by clicking the [+] button to the left of the

I reported one post in which he made scurrilous accusations and attempted to put words in my post which visibly were not there. I will be happy to take back my report if and when he apologises for attempting to misrepresent me in such a ghastly way.

[Cardinal Richelieu]

13 minutes ago, Ross. said:

I reported one post in which he made scurrilous accusations and attempted to put words in my post which visibly were not there. I will be happy to take back my report if and when he apologises for attempting to misrepresent me in such a ghastly way.

Can't find the report but I do remember seeing it, and fair enough reporting that. 

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, Ross. said:

I fully endorse this viewpoint, having spent the last 7 years watching in action, however, I'm not sure Scotland or the UK would make best use of it. Too many people view politics as something not for them and that would require a huge change in mindset or it would result in the minority who are switched on making politics even more of a "Something for only them". There would probably also have to be regulations on how many votes can be brought within a certain time. Given one of the most repeated lines in Scottish politics these days is "People are fed up with referendums", there is no way I can see something being put in place which might mean several happening every few months.

I struggle at times to keep up with them all here. Granted, that is partly because I am still not allowed to vote in them(I only have residency and work permission, not a full passport), but also because generally speaking, every quarter there are another 4 or 5 often completely unrelated votes happening. The Swiss are far more switched on politically than the folk back home, even they struggle at times to keep up with what they are being asked to decide on.

Maybe the Swiss are more able to vote dispassionately on the matter at hand, but we aren't. The reasons people came up with for voting leave were rarely anything to do with what they were asked to decide. Anything from "that Cameron's a smug b*****d" to getting rid of purely Westminster imposed regulations to stopping non EU immigration.

[Ross.]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Maybe the Swiss are more able to vote dispassionately on the matter at hand, but we aren't. The reasons people came up with for voting leave were rarely anything to do with what they were asked to decide. Anything from "that Cameron's a smug b*****d" to getting rid of purely Westminster imposed regulations to stopping non EU immigration.

I don't think that's the case at all. There was a referendum here a few years ago which wanted to cap immigration, and it was passed by a small majority. Most of the reasons given were pretty much the same as a lot of the ones given for backing Brexit. The voting return was also remarkably similar, with the cities tending to vote against a cap and the rural areas being far more in favour of it. The cap is still going through the Swiss parliament but is being watered down massively, because the way it was worded in the referendum would have meant Switzerland was breaking numerous agreements it has with the EU on freedom of movement. It will be an interesting read when the final version of it is finally put in place, and I doubt it will resemble anything approaching what they voted for.

I'd say if anything the Swiss are just more opinionated on a broader range of subjects, and they are brought up from a young age to believe that the system they have is there to be embraced by everyone, not just a political class who seem to make decisions regardless of what the public want. There isn't much that will make the Swiss lose their cool but I reckon if they tried changing their version of Direct Democracy, it would bring down the country.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Ross.

[ICTJohnboy]

18 minutes ago, Cardinal Richelieu said:

Can't find the report but I do remember seeing it, and fair enough reporting that. 

 

And as Naga Munchetty said to Boris this morning "Wot you gonna do about it?"

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, Kuro said:

They're also not exactly shouting from the rooftops they mean by 2030, which would reuqire them.to submit just this elections three elections in a row.  WOS has correctly pointed.this out.  Not like Labour to be economical with the truth eh.

John McDonnell's literally saying this is the timeframe on the tele right now.

[welshbairn]

28 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

John McDonnell's literally saying this is the timeframe on the tele right now.

Said the same on the Today programme, can't keep a secret for the life of him.

[Old Pack]

Labour MP voting for the DUP [emoji23]

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Hearing that the cables for this broadband will be big enough for anti semitic Momentum thugs to crawl down and into your Gran's house to steal her pension.

[ICTJohnboy]

14 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Hearing that the cables for this broadband will be big enough for anti semitic Momentum thugs to crawl down and into your Gran's house to steal her pension.

 

Probably.

And it is another dumb pledge which just has not been properly thought through.

I've got free broadband anyway thanks to my neighbour who doesn't appear to have enabled any security on his wifi router.   

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just caught up with Munchetty's interview with Johnson on Breakfast TV this morning.
Can't quite work out what was worse - her pathetic questions or his ludicrous answers. 

She allowed him to bluster and bluff all the way through a wasted half hour. I hope she watches Rachel Burden interviewing him later this morning to get a few pointers as to how it should be done. Especially as it appeared the callers were being screened by CCHQ.

[beefybake]

1 hour ago, Ross. said:

I don't think that's the case at all. There was a referendum here a few years ago which wanted to cap immigration, and it was passed by a small majority. Most of the reasons given were pretty much the same as a lot of the ones given for backing Brexit. The voting return was also remarkably similar, with the cities tending to vote against a cap and the rural areas being far more in favour of it. The cap is still going through the Swiss parliament but is being watered down massively, because the way it was worded in the referendum would have meant Switzerland was breaking numerous agreements it has with the EU on freedom of movement. It will be an interesting read when the final version of it is finally put in place, and I doubt it will resemble anything approaching what they voted for.

I'd say if anything the Swiss are just more opinionated on a broader range of subjects, and they are brought up from a young age to believe that the system they have is there to be embraced by everyone, not just a political class who seem to make decisions regardless of what the public want. There isn't much that will make the Swiss lose their cool but I reckon if they tried changing their version of Direct Democracy, it would bring down the country.

In Switzerland, women only got the vote in about 1970.... IIRC.

Their version of democracy doesn't seem very forward looking.