General Election 2019 - AND IT’S LIVE!

[dorlomin]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

What do you suggest Labour offer? 

After the years of flip flopping it does not matter what they offer now. They have alienated large sections of  remain and leave. 

Dont forget the latest position of the leader being officially neutral is only a day old. 

We are headed to the closing stages of a general election with a public that seems sceptical of Labours position at best, oblivious to what the latest set of compromises they hammered out to deal with internal party schisms at worst. 

[pandarilla]

Yes. Very clear. Most of the party wants to remain. They will do whatever is necessary to avoid leaving (properly) but they need to lie about that to avoid sounding anti-democratic and to avoid losing too many marginals north of Watford.
tbf, short of nationalising Greggs and promising free fudge doughnuts for all, they've really thrown the kitchen sink at this election with populist policies.

Populism has no substance to it - something that came be used against Labour.

The party line is clear on brexit but it's a big old party and there's plenty of different opinions (only smaller parties have found the remain line easy to navigate - the two main parties are fucking ripped apart by it. But the party line is the best of a bunch of shite options).

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

6 candidates in West Dunbartonshire and only 1 lives here. I find that very very worrying. The one that does is a one issue, anti abotionist sort. Finding it hard to vote for any of them. 
Anyone else have candidates that don't live in the area they aim to represent? 

Doesnt Martin Docherty Hughes live in Clydebank?

[Father Ted]

I've got to be honest, as a SNP supporter from the day I could vote. I am tempted by Corbyn and his policies, which are perfectly achievable. If we reign in tax avoidance, offshore shenanigans and the greed of the Tories.

Any working or middle class person who now votes Tory. Is either brainwashed by Tory propaganda or needs to take a good look at themselves for selling the country down the river, and as a consequence making their life even more difficult than it is.

Tories only care about themselves and their ilk, and rest of us are cannon fodder.

Personally I would hang Tories from lamp posts as a lesson to others thinking about heading down this road.

There is no place in a modern caring society for the Tory ethos, it belongs in medieval times.

[Pet Jeden]

5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

To be clear this isn't Labour's position

To be clear, it is.

[Jambomo]

39 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

They have argued from Day 1 that the UK should remain in the customs union.

I've heard them say over the years that they want to leave, some say they want a deal, some say they want to remain. Some of these positions have been from different party members speaking on the same day  They have been  fence-sitters since before the referendum.

It doesn't change my original point though, Corbyn stated that the position now is to negotiate a trade deal and then put it do the people via a peoples vote. In this general election you are still voting for a party that may or may not have us leave the EU. Does anyone really want to vote for a party, where 1) the brexit outcome is still uncertain and 2) it will rest again on what the UK public vote for, a public that have mainly been slagging off the other side for the past few years?  

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I've got to be honest, as a SNP supporter from the day I could vote. I am tempted by Corbyn and his policies, which are perfectly achievable. If we reign in tax avoidance, offshore shenanigans and the greed of the Tories.

Any working or middle class person who now votes Tory. Is either brainwashed by Tory propaganda or needs to take a good look at themselves for selling the country down the river, and as a consequence making their life even more difficult than it is.

Tories only care about themselves and their ilk, and rest of us are cannon fodder.

Personally I would hang Tories from lamp posts as a lesson to others thinking about heading down this road.

There is no place in a modern caring society for the Tory ethos, it belongs in medieval times.

Thing is though mate, as much as the things Corbyn presents are great, but the English wont vote for it. They want austerity, they want a hard brexit, they want all the hatred, they want the poor to be punished for being poor. Its reflected in the polling, its reflected in every vote since the EU ref.

[Pet Jeden]

8 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

I've got to be honest, as a SNP supporter from the day I could vote. I am tempted by Corbyn and his policies, which are perfectly achievable. If we reign in tax avoidance, offshore shenanigans and the greed of the Tories.

Any working or middle class person who now votes Tory. Is either brainwashed by Tory propaganda or needs to take a good look at themselves for selling the country down the river, and as a consequence making their life even more difficult than it is.

Tories only care about themselves and their ilk, and rest of us are cannon fodder.

Personally I would hang Tories from lamp posts as a lesson to others thinking about heading down this road.

There is no place in a modern caring society for the Tory ethos, it belongs in medieval times.

So you don't really believe in the independence and sovereignty of the Scottish people. You just see Scottish independence as a quicker route to socialism than waiting for a win for a real Labour party in the UK . Preferably with a lot of lynchings on the way.

Are you a Thomas Mair type that the polis need to be keeping tabs on - or just a sad internet hardman fantasist?

[Pet Jeden]

8 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

[ICTJohnboy]

16 minutes ago, Father Ted said:

I've got to be honest, as a SNP supporter from the day I could vote. I am tempted by Corbyn and his policies, which are perfectly achievable. If we reign in tax avoidance, offshore shenanigans and the greed of the Tories.

Any working or middle class person who now votes Tory. Is either brainwashed by Tory propaganda or needs to take a good look at themselves for selling the country down the river, and as a consequence making their life even more difficult than it is.

Tories only care about themselves and their ilk, and rest of us are cannon fodder.

Personally I would hang Tories from lamp posts as a lesson to others thinking about heading down this road.

There is no place in a modern caring society for the Tory ethos, it belongs in medieval times.

 

What's the point in voting labour in Scotland when the SNP have already implemented most of the policies in the current Corbyn manifesto?

[welshbairn]

11 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I've heard them say over the years that they want to leave, some say they want a deal, some say they want to remain. Some of these positions have been from different party members speaking on the same day  They have been  fence-sitters since before the referendum.

It doesn't change my original point though, Corbyn stated that the position now is to negotiate a trade deal and then put it do the people via a peoples vote. In this general election you are still voting for a party that may or may not have us leave the EU. Does anyone really want to vote for a party, where 1) the brexit outcome is still uncertain and 2) it will rest again on what the UK public vote for, a public that have mainly been slagging off the other side for the past few years?  

Do you think Labour should follow the Lib Dem's policy of ignoring the referendum and revoking with a much smaller mandate than the 52% who voted Leave?

Edited November 23, 2019 by welshbairn

[pandarilla]

I've heard them say over the years that they want to leave, some say they want a deal, some say they want to remain. Some of these positions have been from different party members speaking on the same day [emoji23] They have been  fence-sitters since before the referendum.
It doesn't change my original point though, Corbyn stated that the position now is to negotiate a trade deal and then put it do the people via a peoples vote. In this general election you are still voting for a party that may or may not have us leave the EU. Does anyone really want to vote for a party, where 1) the brexit outcome is still uncertain and 2) it will rest again on what the UK public vote for, a public that have mainly been slagging off the other side for the past few years?  

I've heard them say over the years that they want to leave, some say they want a deal, some say they want to remain. Some of these positions have been from different party members speaking on the same day [emoji23] They have been  fence-sitters since before the referendum.
It doesn't change my original point though, Corbyn stated that the position now is to negotiate a trade deal and then put it do the people via a peoples vote. In this general election you are still voting for a party that may or may not have us leave the EU. Does anyone really want to vote for a party, where 1) the brexit outcome is still uncertain and 2) it will rest again on what the UK public vote for, a public that have mainly been slagging off the other side for the past few years?  

Both main parties are identical in their division over brexit. Johnson has power though, and he kicked out those who voted against him.

Corbyn has been slightly less ruthless but there was no way the various factions of these big parties were going to agree on an issue as big and as complex as this.

Some do want to leave with a deal, and some want to remain. They're as divided as the country.

What do you expect them to do?

If you like the way Boris is handling things then that's your choice but I think he's trying to play the right wing populist leader role (when he himself actually supported the EU much of his time in politics). He's trying to be the British trump - bombastic and representative of the little guy.

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

What's the point in voting labour in Scotland when the SNP have already implemented most of the policies in the current Corbyn manifesto?

Really? 

Where should I collect my free broadband? 

[pandarilla]

So you don't really believe in the independence and sovereignty of the Scottish people. You just see Scottish independence as a quicker route to socialism than waiting for a win for a real Labour party in the UK . Preferably with a lot of lynchings on the way.
Are you a Thomas Mair type that the polis need to be keeping tabs on - or just a sad internet hardman fantasist?

That's quite an ironic end to your post.

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

So if you don't know the viability of his business why on earth did you say he was able to support himself purely on that product? Why use something you know nothing about as a weapon against people? That was the source of your bullshit right there.

By the way, as regards Michael Kittredge, he started Yankee Candles in 1969. He was first to market with that type of product and he had funding and family support behind him to allow him to do what I described in my earlier post. That is a totally different thing from doing that sort of business now on your own, in a massively crowded market where this sort of thing is essentially a commodity, whilst on benefits. He wouldn't be able to do that type of business now and make it work. Timing is everything in business.

Like I said before, I agree with your view that people shouldn't sit around waiting on a government to change their lives but the problem with people like you is that you try and use it as a weapon to beat people at the bottom whereas I don't. In my case it's about educating and helping people but I end up getting tarred with the shitty brush that people like you create (and the ridiculous abuse which comes with it). That's what I had a problem with.

 

Oh dear! 

Are you really trying to claim that candles weren't sold and marketed in 1969? 

You also didn't read up on Kittredge did you? Started with a single candle made from melted crayons that he sold to a sympathetic neighbour. 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Malky3

[ICTJohnboy]

13 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I've heard them say over the years that they want to leave, some say they want a deal, some say they want to remain. Some of these positions have been from different party members speaking on the same day  They have been  fence-sitters since before the referendum.

It doesn't change my original point though, Corbyn stated that the position now is to negotiate a trade deal and then put it do the people via a peoples vote. In this general election you are still voting for a party that may or may not have us leave the EU. Does anyone really want to vote for a party, where 1) the brexit outcome is still uncertain and 2) it will rest again on what the UK public vote for, a public that have mainly been slagging off the other side for the past few years?  

 

What is being negotiated now is a Withdrawal Agreement. Trade Deals could be a long way off yet!

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Labour's position on brexit is relatively simple. Negotiate a better deal than the shite served up by May and Johnson, then put it to a vote against remain.

You may not like it or agree with it, but anyone who claims they don't understand it is either a complete moron or being deliberately contrarian.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Really? 
Where should I collect my free broadband? 

Oh you get it at the same place Scottish kids pay their tuition fees, its in the office directly below the one that sends out all the prescription charges.

[Father Ted]

Thing is though mate, as much as the things Corbyn presents are great, but the English wont vote for it. They want austerity, they want a hard brexit, they want all the hatred, they want the poor to be punished for being poor. Its reflected in the polling, its reflected in every vote since the EU ref.

Sadly this is the case and a reflection on our society. People need to realise there is more to this election than Brexit, but the Tories want it this way as they have no positivity to offer the electorate and their terms so far, have been a disgrace

[ICTJohnboy]

3 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Really? 

Where should I collect my free broadband? 

 

You might have to wait a while for that - especially if you live in The Shetland Isles, where you'll be lucky to find a phonebox that works.

I did say the SNP have already implemented most of Labour's current proposals.