General Election 2019 - AND IT’S LIVE!

[dirty dingus]

The Swinson goal scoring prowess

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Labour's stance on Brexit is a fucking open goal for the Tories. It's astonishing to believe that apparently intelligent people in the Labour party have come up with a 'let's not take a real decision on Brexit' policy.

With the LibDems reeling, Labour had the chance to become the party of Remain and effectively scoop up millions of votes. Not only that, they had the chance to go along with how the majority of their members feel. 

But they won't. They're terrified by the single statistic that a majority of the constituencies apparently voted 'leave', and they've been blinded by this since day one. 

The Mumbleclown has given us a Tory majority that will scar the country for years, and in the process he's killed off the Labour party as a viable choice for people that are not attracted to extreme socialism. 

What a fucking shambles. 

[Malky3]

5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Challenging your nonsense is not about being "angry". It's about demolishing bullshit using hard logic and numbers wherever I find it.

I agree with that last sentence in bold but there are three reasons to haul you over the coals for the way you have done presented your argument.

1) Because you are lying and I broke down the numbers to show you how ridiculous your claim is.

2) Because when people like you lie about stuff like this it causes real damage to people.

3) You are using bullshit as an excuse to attack people. If you are going to attack people you should base it in either fact or reasonable opinion. You've done neither.

As for me not knowing his financial affairs, that is irrelevant. All I need to do is to show how farcical your claim is that anyone can simply start making candles in their kitchen and be able to support themselves in a very crowded niche market. I know how business works and I know how to assess a feasible business by making some quick calculations.

I asked you a series of very reasonable questions regarding the viability of a business like this. I noticed you've completely failed to address any of them.

You are utterly bizarre. 

First off it's not my business so how the hell would I know the financial viability of the business he's got. It's nothing to do with me. 

Second, the guy hasn't been on boasting to me about his income or the success of his business so he isn't bullshitting me in the slightest. 

Third, even if he was bullshitting me and I was gullible enough to believe it and to pass it on that in no way means I am bullshitting everyone else. 

I am in no way lying. My youngest son has a friend who set up a candle making business that appears - to me at least - to be doing reasonably well. As I say his candles are stocked at a major retailer. Now obviously I don't know his financials, and I have absolutely no knowledge of his welfare status so I have no idea if it's a struggling business or not. The point was though that he had endured hardship and he didn't sit around waiting for someone else to fix his mess for him. Personally I think the lad deserves credit - not this pounding vilification of his efforts by someone who knows even less about his business than I do. 

As for the part I've highlighted - have a wee shot on Google and search for a gentleman called Michael Kittredge. A man who started off the brand "Yankee Candle" by making candles in his kitchen. I presume you might have heard of them? 

[pandarilla]

There's nothing extreme about Corbyn's socialism, it's just socialism.

And I think he's handling the brexit issue quite well. All out remain Labour would not have won an election - not even close.

They'd have been hounded out of heartlands for years.

This was the best version of a shitey bunch of options.

[Stellaboz]

Let's a give credit to this imaginary person. Hail!

[Jambomo]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

There's nothing extreme about Corbyn's socialism, it's just socialism.

And I think he's handling the brexit issue quite well. All out remain Labour would not have won an election - not even close.

They'd have been hounded out of heartlands for years.

This was the best version of a shitey bunch of options.

I can understand what Corbyn is trying to do with his neutral stance, and I can admire its principle in trying to put democracy at the centre of the decision making. The problem is, can you really vote for that? I wouldn't vote Labour because I want to know the position on Brexit of the party I am voting for, I also wouldn't trust the voting public in the UK to come to a sensible decision, half of them still believe that Boris cares about them FFS.

[dorlomin]

10 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

They're terrified by the single statistic that a majority of the constituencies apparently voted 'leave', and they've been blinded by this since day one. 

Corbyn has been a "Brexiter" for decades. It harks back to the Bennite faction on the far left of the party in the 70s and 80s that he aligned with. They viewed the EEC as a neoliberal organisation. Its the politics of back bench perma-protesters, but as you say it is a horrible hobbling of the party when trying to deal with the most divisive issue in current UK politics. 

 

[Jambomo]

Just now, MixuFixit said:

But Labour's position to n Brexit is perfectly clear tbh

To stay neutral and then go with the Peoples vote result? That isn't perfectly clear, voting Labour could mean voting to remain or to leave with a deal. I want to KNOW what my party will be trying to get from Brexit, and I suspect others do as well.

[dorlomin]

9 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

And I think he's handling the brexit issue quite well.

Well now we know where that 12% comes from. That and the Momentum head bangers. 

[dorlomin]

8 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

To stay neutral and then go with the Peoples vote result? That isn't perfectly clear, voting Labour could mean voting to remain or to leave with a deal. I want to KNOW what my party will be trying to get from Brexit, and I suspect others do as well.

They have had 3 and a half years of shifting positions, obfuscations and dithering. The majority of people have no real idea what their position is and now its yet another renegotiation (who seriously wants that!*) followed by a referendum where we do not really know what they would stand for.

*Cameron tried to renegotiate our position in Europe before 2016.

May had her negotiation for her deal. 

Johnson had whatever the hell he was doing over the summer. 

Now we are supposed to have negotiation no 4?

[ICTJohnboy]

13 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

Corbyn has been a "Brexiter" for decades. It harks back to the Bennite faction on the far left of the party in the 70s and 80s that he aligned with. They viewed the EEC as a neoliberal organisation. Its the politics of back bench perma-protesters, but as you say it is a horrible hobbling of the party when trying to deal with the most divisive issue in current UK politics. 

 

 

More Euro Sceptic than Brexiter.

He did actually vote Remain in 2016.

[pandarilla]

Well now we know where that 12% comes from. That and the Momentum head bangers. 

[emoji2][emoji2] what a fanny you are.

[pandarilla]

To stay neutral and then go with the Peoples vote result? That isn't perfectly clear, voting Labour could mean voting to remain or to leave with a deal. I want to KNOW what my party will be trying to get from Brexit, and I suspect others do as well.

They've made it clear what they're trying to get - they're trying to get a closely assigned deal.

Then they'll have it confirmed. B

[pandarilla]

They have had 3 and a half years of shifting positions, obfuscations and dithering. The majority of people have no real idea what their position is and now its yet another renegotiation (who seriously wants that!*) followed by a referendum where we do not really know what they would stand for.
*Cameron tried to renegotiate our position in Europe before 2016.
May had her negotiation for her deal. 
Johnson had whatever the hell he was doing over the summer. 
Now we are supposed to have negotiation no 4?[emoji38]

Anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention to British politics knows what the Labour party position is on brexit.

Now if you're talking about 'man on the street' that reads the sun then who the f**k knows.

Brexit is too complicated for simple binary decisions - unless you're a little england leave voter.

[Jambomo]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

They've made it clear what they're trying to get - they're trying to get a closely assigned deal.

Then they'll have it confirmed. B

That is not what Corbyn said in that debate.

[ICTJohnboy]

1 minute ago, Jambomo said:

That is not what Corbyn said in that debate.

 

They have argued from Day 1 that the UK should remain in the customs union.

[dorlomin]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention to British politics knows what the Labour party position is on brexit.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-changing-brexit-stance

The idiot that was calling for the immediate invoking of Article 50 the day after the referendum?

There position on the EU has been all over the place over the past few years. Its been a running joke. 

 

[pandarilla]

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-changing-brexit-stance
The idiot that was calling for the immediate invoking of Article 50 the day after the referendum?
There position on the EU has been all over the place over the past few years. Its been a running joke. 
 

Who was calling for the immediate revoking of it? Corbyn?

[welshbairn]

19 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

They have had 3 and a half years of shifting positions, obfuscations and dithering. The majority of people have no real idea what their position is and now its yet another renegotiation (who seriously wants that!*) followed by a referendum where we do not really know what they would stand for.

*Cameron tried to renegotiate our position in Europe before 2016.

May had her negotiation for her deal. 

Johnson had whatever the hell he was doing over the summer. 

Now we are supposed to have negotiation no 4?

What do you suggest Labour offer? Revoke after certainly getting far less than the 52% who voted remain? Or offer Johnson's shitty deal versus Remain in a referendum? Or negotiating the best deal possible with the insane Tory red lines dropped and offer it to a confirmatory referendum versus remain as a genuine choice, with the risk of permanent damage to the economy and welfare state quashed? Or something else? He can't go into honest negotiations with the EU saying he's going to campaign for Remain, he'd be ripped to shreds at home and the negotiations would be a farce.

[Pet Jeden]

42 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

But Labour's position on Brexit is perfectly clear tbh

 

Yes. Very clear. Most of the party wants to remain. They will do whatever is necessary to avoid leaving (properly) but they need to lie about that to avoid sounding anti-democratic and to avoid losing too many marginals north of Watford.

tbf, short of nationalising Greggs and promising free fudge doughnuts for all, they've really thrown the kitchen sink at this election with populist policies.