General Election 2019 - AND IT’S LIVE!

[John Lambies Doos]

 Tomorrow
 
BBC Parliament channel id imagine
 

Heard today it was actually on Tuesday?

[dorlomin]

 

So the "narrative" being established by the Momentum fanatics is that Labour lost because Brexit (which is in itself idiotic to blame the biggest political issue issue of the day when you helped trigger the election on that very issue). Yet polling show what most mainstream political commentators have been saying for years, the clown is unelectable. 

He had a toxic past that went down like a bowl of cold sick with many working class regions in the North of England. Fanatical zealots shouted down any attempt to point this out and made up absurd justifications for him. They sailed over the heads of lifetime Labour voters. 

The vitriolic contempt you will find on this forum for working class Labour voters who do not conform to the modern liberal, urbane world view is a big part of why we are where we are today in America and the UK. There is a great deal of similarity between "rust belt" US backing Trump and the NW and NE of England backing Boris. 

To sell social democracy to the UK public we need to find people who can actually sell things, we need to take smaller steps, focus on what the voters in run down communities worry about, place the big (popular with students) international issues onto the back burner, sound local and find people who are proud of this country. Labour prime minister had no problem being patriotically British (ok this forum swings strongly to SNP but we are talking about UK wide politics here). 

People need to feel that the Labour leadership cares about them and the things they care about, not like its the NUS trying to take over the country. 

People who cannot empathise with why life long Labour voters left the party this election really should have no part in the discussion about the next Labour leader. 

[Antlion]

41 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

The vitriolic contempt you will find on this forum for working class Labour voters who do not conform to the modern liberal, urbane world view is a big part of why we are where we are today in America and the UK. There is a great deal of similarity between "rust belt" US backing Trump and the NW and NE of England backing Boris. 

To sell social democracy to the UK public we need to find people who can actually sell things, we need to take smaller steps, focus on what the voters in run down communities worry about, place the big (popular with students) international issues onto the back burner, sound local and find people who are proud of this country. Labour prime minister had no problem being patriotically British (ok this forum swings strongly to SNP but we are talking about UK wide politics here). 

People need to feel that the Labour leadership cares about them and the things they care about, not like its the NUS trying to take over the country. 

People who cannot empathise with why life long Labour voters left the party this election really should have no part in the discussion about the next Labour leader. 

Whilst I agree Corbyn was a useless twat, what you’re arguing for here is pure populism under a different banner. Your own contempt for these working class former Labour voters is pretty clear: you appear to think they’re idiots who need Union Jacks (or St George’s Crosses) plastered about by grinning, inane c***s like Boris, but not Boris.
 

If these folk don’t hold “modern, liberal, urbane views” then the last thing they we should want for them is another populist messenger giving them an idiot’s guide to policy. If they want easy answers, and it appears they do, then I see no reason to encourage that kind of stupidity by encouraging Labour to ape the new populism of the Tories. That isn’t educating voters; it’s taking advantage of what you apparently see as their stupidity by having an equally mendacious BritNat populist in a red rosette stoking their prejudices.

The sad thing is you’re probably bang on. 

[dorlomin]

13 minutes ago, Antlion said:

what you’re arguing for here is pure populism under a different banner. Your own contempt for these working class former Labour voters is pretty clea

f**k off. 

[Pet Jeden]

Controversial slogan to tweet - for a man who had to keep denying he was a terrorist sympathiser. But I suppose he will have shaken off all his advisers now and he probably doesn’t give a fcuk any more.

[BudBairn]

Heard today it was actually on Tuesday?

I am sure BJ said Monday so you are probably right about it being Tuesday!

[Baxter Parp]

 

You do realise not everyone wanted brexit done due to immigration reasons?

Yes, the fact that racist incidents in England and Wales have risen 57% since the referendum has nothing to do with "immigration reasons".

 

[Baxter Parp]

This, although in fairness, my skin crawls at the notion that anyone may lump me in with the likes of oaksoft due to the fact I wanted to leave the EU.

Think on.

[Ross.]

9 hours ago, dorlomin said:

The higher end of the London property market has been dead since the referendum. Perhaps that might change. But one of the main drivers of the super prime property market in "global cities" like London, Sydney, New York, Miami etc has been as a wealth store *(or at least that is what I have been reading and hearing for a while). Russian, Arab, Chinese and others have been seeking places to stash cash in case of changes in government, economics or government policy in their homes. Places with a good reputation for rule of law and well wired into the global economy. Perhaps certainty will bring the money back into London.

For this city specifically it has grown from about 6 million in 1990 to over 8 million toady without a significant growth in available homes. This has driven the mid market housing off like a rocket. 

 

In the months following the referendum there was an increase in overseas buyers going into London, taking advantage of the lag between GBP falling and house prices rising. Prices rose as a result and that was when buying tailed off again. A similar drop would likely see the same thing happen again.

[dirty dingus]

7 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Controversial slogan to tweet - for a man who had to keep denying he was a terrorist sympathiser. But I suppose he will have shaken off all his advisers now and he probably doesn’t give a fcuk any more.

FFS, Corbyn is a lump o wood but maybe he just doesn't have the mindset of tiny sectors of NI and the Scottish central belt where every tiny comment will be looked up as an attack on yer culture or twisted to suit your agenda. Maybe he just thinks after Boris fucks up his party can win.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

7 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Controversial slogan to tweet - for a man who had to keep denying he was a terrorist sympathiser. But I suppose he will have shaken off all his advisers now and he probably doesn’t give a fcuk any more.

Isn't the IRA slogan "Our Day Will Come?"

[Pet Jeden]

44 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Isn't the IRA slogan "Our Day Will Come?"

Ah. Um. Oops. Sorry.

[LongTimeLurker]

8 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Controversial slogan to tweet - for a man who had to keep denying he was a terrorist sympathiser. But I suppose he will have shaken off all his advisers now and he probably doesn’t give a fcuk any more.

He knows exactly what he is doing with that. The DUP could not allow this guy anywhere near 10 Downing Street and that could have led us over the cliff edge into no deal hard Brexit given ERG also had lots of leverage. Boris Johnson is a boorish clown but with a large majority for five years things should start to gravitate towards a reasonably rational outcome again.

[John Lambies Doos]

Isn't the IRA slogan "Our Day Will Come?"

Ta

Tiocfaidh ar la

[Pet Jeden]

On 15/12/2019 at 08:39, MixuFixit said:

Plus the degree to which folk drift right depends on whether they have property and pensions to protect. We're in a transition just now where that generation is using its resources to help their children buy homes, but rentierism is skimming off more of these houses so when they have children of their own, supply will be even more constricted by landlords. Paying a lot of your income to a landlord and not being able to retire at a time when life expectancy is dropping, uniquely in western Europe, do not foster those conditions.
 

Post the banking collapse, the government has actually done its best to keep prices up by keeping interest rates at effectively 0% and they have encouraged first time buyers into the market, tinkering with Help to Buy etc. They should actually have taken the opportunity to encourage a deflation of real prices which - under normal interest rates - are far, far too high. Ludicrously so on planet London. Where supply is as inflexible as it is in the UK, boosting the owner-occupied market is probably at the expense of the rental market. The only answer to that is more supply - which means encouraging landlords and new build investment into the market. By all means with quality regulations, but avoiding the knee-jerk all landlords are intrinsically bad, all tenants are downtrodden schtick. Usually when I see the word rentierism, it's a precursor to that.

The biggest current impact on rents and availability in Edinburgh is probably the explosion of airbnb, which like a lot of the gig economy, needs politicians and courts to get tough and cut through all the - " ah, but we are not really landlords/a taxi service/a publisher", etc nonsense. Based, of course, in Luxembourg or BVI or some nonsense place.

[Ross.]

8 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Post the banking collapse, the government has actually done its best to keep prices up by keeping interest rates at effectively 0% and they have encouraged first time buyers into the market, tinkering with Help to Buy etc. They should actually have taken the opportunity to encourage a deflation of real prices which - under normal interest rates - are far, far too high. Ludicrously so on planet London. Where supply is as inflexible as it is in the UK, boosting the owner-occupied market is probably at the expense of the rental market. The only answer to that is more supply - which means encouraging landlords and new build investment into the market. By all means with quality regulations, but avoiding the knee-jerk all landlords are intrinsically bad, all tenants are downtrodden schtick. Usually when I see the word rentierism, it's a precursor to that.

The biggest current impact on rents and availability in Edinburgh is probably the explosion of airbnb, which like a lot of the gig economy, needs politicians and courts to get tough and cut through all the - " ah, but we are not really landlords/a taxi service/a publisher", etc nonsense. Based, of course, in Luxembourg or BVI or some nonsense place.

It would be almost impossible for any UK government to push for the BOE to increase interest rates by any significant amount, thanks to the horrendously large numbers when it comes to unsecured debt and mortgage debt in the UK. Aside from the increase in rates leading to a lot of people being unable to afford their mortgage repayment, the fall in price would push many into negative equity and create another banking crisis in the process, albeit one that is entirely different to the last one.

The whole situation is a monumental f**k up. Whether by accident or design is another question.

[Pet Jeden]

5 minutes ago, Ross. said:

It would be almost impossible for any UK government to push for the BOE to increase interest rates by any significant amount, thanks to the horrendously large numbers when it comes to unsecured debt and mortgage debt in the UK. Aside from the increase in rates leading to a lot of people being unable to afford their mortgage repayment, the fall in price would push many into negative equity and create another banking crisis in the process, albeit one that is entirely different to the last one.

The whole situation is a monumental f**k up. Whether by accident or design is another question.

But the crash was over a decade ago. And in that time real house prices have risen over a period when real incomes have not. It's madness - driven by political gutlessness.

[welshbairn]

House prices have barely moved in Inverness, probably due to frenzy of house building around the city.

[Pet Jeden]

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

House prices have barely moved in Inverness, probably due to frenzy of house building around the city.

Well, that’s good, isn’t it?

[Ross.]

1 hour ago, Pet Jeden said:

But the crash was over a decade ago. And in that time real house prices have risen over a period when real incomes have not. It's madness - driven by political gutlessness.

Yep, and the answer to the crash was just to kick it down the road and hope someone can come up with an answer before it happens all over again.