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Frank Grimes

General Election 2019 - AND IT’S LIVE!

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Fair enough, I just think he's got the most democratic proposal on offer. 


Wanting to ignore the result of the first referendum is not democratic in any way.

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2 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 


Wanting to ignore the result of the first referendum is not democratic in any way.

 

 

Quite a lot have changed their minds about how they voted last time, claiming they were seriously misled during the campaign.

Now that we are all a wee bit clearer on what Brexit might look like, what on earth is wrong with offering another chance to the electorate to confirm that this is what they wanted?

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6 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

What extreme capitalism, exactly? On a world view political/economic spectrum of 1-100, where 1.  is sell your own young into slavery, no welfare state capitalism and 100. is  from each according to their ability to each according to their need communism, all post-war UK governments - Conservative and Labour-  have hovered about the half way mark. In fact, they're probably about 48-52!

A moronic construct, and a diversion from what is being said.

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12 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 


Wanting to ignore the result of the first referendum is not democratic in any way.

 

You're talking about the Lib Dems.

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Quite a lot have changed their minds about how they voted last time, claiming they were seriously misled during the campaign.
Now that we are all a wee bit clearer on what Brexit might look like, what on earth is wrong with offering another chance to the electorate to confirm that this is what they wanted?


Because it’s your responsibility to know what you’re voting for. Saying you have changed your mind isn’t a valid excuse, otherwise we would have second and third reeferendums for every referendum. You lost, Brexit is happening, get over it, respect democracy.

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There seems to be something of a remarkable coincidence in play here. Malky of the fifty posts per hour has seemingly disappeared but lo and behold along comes Tarmo Kink to fill the vacancy.

However, just to really keep us all on our toes, TK's wordsmithing is much more similar in style to that of Oaksoft.

All very strange indeed.

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18 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 


Because it’s your responsibility to know what you’re voting for. Saying you have changed your mind isn’t a valid excuse, otherwise we would have second and third reeferendums for every referendum. You lost, Brexit is happening, get over it, respect democracy.

 

We're on to our 3rd General Election in the last 4 years, plenty people change their minds, or die or reach voting age, or just find out what exactly they were voting for, including the politicians. Nobody knew in 2016 that Brexit would mean a border down the Irish Sea for instance. What's undemocratic in asking them to confirm that's what they want, or negotiating a deal that doesn't require one, and put that to them?

Edited by welshbairn

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We're on to our 3rd General Election in the last 4 years, plenty people change their minds, or die or reach voting age, or just find out what exactly they were voting for. Nobody knew in 2016 that Brexit would mean a border down the Irish Sea for instance. What's undemocratic in asking them to confirm that's what they want, or negotiating a deal that doesn't require one, and put that to them?


Because General Election deliver a result and parliament operates based on that for the required period. We haven’t delivered Brexit yet so it would undemocratic to ignore the result just because a lot of people can’t accept losing. The next election to do with the EU shouldn’t happen until we have left the EU IMO.

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So? Not one politician has changed their mind on Brexit as much as Corbyn has.

He’s been Remain, then leave, then ‘leave and absolutely no second referendum’, then ‘remain because I won’t back any Tory deal’, then neutral. And that’s not even every change he has made. The guy is unbackable, and I would much rather a Boris brexit than a Corbyn brexit (which isn’t, and will not be, a thing).


I can think of one. One who said that he'd support Remain, then said he'd support Leave. Who said that Leaving would mean a government being dragged down in years of negotiations then said the government would be able to negotiate an exit agreement within 11 months. Someone who voted against Teresa May's deal but who voted for a similar deal that was actually worse. A man who said that there would be no border in the Irish Sea yet who supports a deal which does just that. Someone who said we'd be leaving the EU, Deal or No Deal on October 31st. Quite a lot of flip flopping there. Compared to Corbyn, Johnston is even more all over the place. Not that the media ever bring it up as much.

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8 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 


Because it’s your responsibility to know what you’re voting for. Saying you have changed your mind isn’t a valid excuse, otherwise we would have second and third reeferendums for every referendum. You lost, Brexit is happening, get over it, respect democrac

Eat your cereal Britain!

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Quite a lot have changed their minds about how they voted last time, claiming they were seriously misled during the campaign.
Now that we are all a wee bit clearer on what Brexit might look like, what on earth is wrong with offering another chance to the electorate to confirm that this is what they wanted?
If you claim you were misled to vote leave, you're a fucking idiot.

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Just now, Stellaboz said:
20 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:
 
Quite a lot have changed their minds about how they voted last time, claiming they were seriously misled during the campaign.
Now that we are all a wee bit clearer on what Brexit might look like, what on earth is wrong with offering another chance to the electorate to confirm that this is what they wanted?

If you claim you were misled to vote leave, you're a fucking idiot.

 

A lot fucking idiots thought we would be much better off on leaving.

And would you blame any of them for believing there would be an extra £350 million a week going into the NHS? 

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If you claim you were misled to vote leave, you're a fucking idiot.


Yep. Every election/referendum has loads of scaremongering, propaganda and lies attached to it. The result of the referendum has to be delivered whether you agree with it or not, as that’s democracy.

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8 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:
28 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:
 
Quite a lot have changed their minds about how they voted last time, claiming they were seriously misled during the campaign.
Now that we are all a wee bit clearer on what Brexit might look like, what on earth is wrong with offering another chance to the electorate to confirm that this is what they wanted?

If you claim you were misled to vote leave, you're a fucking idiot.

Given the number of outright lies from the leave campaign about how easy a deal would be it's ridiculous to suggest nobody could have been misled.

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Spent a fair amount of time on Friday speaking with two people who are campaigning for The Labour Party - both spent most of the time talking about what is wrong with The Labour Party. 
Some of them actually don't know why they did or do vote labour. Pathetic really. In Alex Ferguson's autobiography there is a picture of him with Tony Blair and one eyed broon. He states that labour can always count on his vote! A lot of institutionalised wankers in that generation

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2 minutes ago, Rodhull said:

Given the number of outright lies from the leave campaign about how easy a deal would be it's ridiculous to suggest nobody could have been misled.

Most of the politicians didn't have a clue either tbf.

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Given the number of outright lies from the leave campaign about how easy a deal would be it's ridiculous to suggest nobody could have been misled.


People will be misled every election. Lets have indyref2, 2nd Brexit ‘confirmatory’ referendum and a second referendum for ALL future referendums incase people are ‘misled’ or ‘change their mind’. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous logic and anyone pushing a second referendum is a fucking loonball.

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1 minute ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 


People will be misled every election. Lets have indyref2, 2nd Brexit ‘confirmatory’ referendum and a second referendum for ALL future referendums incase people are ‘misled’ or ‘change their mind’. It’s absolutely fucking ridiculous logic and anyone pushing a second referendum is a fucking loonball.

 

Eat your cereal.

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3 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I'm always intrigued at the line of thought that says 'giving everyone a vote on this important issue is undemocratic'

Aye. The most significant decisions in a lifetime but making sure they're right or even wanted anymore is loonball stuff.

We should really have a 'This decision must be accepted without argument and never talked of again' clause inserted into the drafting laws for these referendums. That of course would be very democratic.

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