johnthebaptistist Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, Kuro said: What is a personal agenda for self appeasement? Those words in that combination don't even mean anything. You might as well admit you're a demented British nationalist who hates Nicola sturgeon because she threatens your nationalism therefore your hate her if.she cured cancer. And the reasons you cite as being good are exactly why she got into politics. That phrase sits well with many a politican that I can name, Jo Swinson, Jacob Rees-Mogg instantly come to mind. I know people that I work with that have the same selfish attitudes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, johnthebaptistist said: That phrase sits well with many a politican that I can name, Jo Swinson, Jacob Rees-Mogg instantly come to mind. I know people that I work with that have the same selfish attitudes. What does that phrase mean? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptistist Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Kuro said: What does that phrase mean? It seems quite simple to me, I even simplified it from the normal phrase I use. Read it more slowly if you can 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearthammer Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: No. Within the UK’s means. Successive labour and tory governments have jizzed excessive amounts on projects that will "benefit britain" - M25 multiple lane extensions / additional runway(s) & terminals at heathrow / channel tunnel / HS2 (london to oop north). London and the south east will always be westminster's priorities. Whilst these cosmetic appeasements were being thought out and implimented, we had the A1 and the A9/M74 motorways (term used loosely) that were nothing more than extended "A" roads. Both of these roads were serious and major accident blackspots for years with multiple deaths recorded. We in Scotland were at the back of the queue for years for upgrading these roads to full motorway status. Thankfully, Devolution followed by SNP governance has resolved these issues as much as is possible. We also have a new Queensferry Crossing that was necessary to alleviate the traffic problems between the Kingdom and Edinburgh/South. Not cosmetic, but required. You're too young to remember the 60s and 70s (i'm guessing), so don't base all your political judgements on how Scotland's faring on the current pro-uk spin guff - or the copy & paste maestro, wee malky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Yup. We’ve been living beyond our means through good times and bad through the whole lifetime of anybody on P&B. But, go on, regale us with your “invest” for growth spiel. In the words of William Gale (a senior economist during the first Bush administration, so hardly some Marxist shill) : Quote Balanced budgets may have symbolic value, but they are not necessary. Rules aimed at forcing balanced budgets make recessions deeper and longer by requiring spending cuts or tax increases during hard times, and they can be manipulated through accounting gimmicks. Almost every state has a balanced-budget rule, but many of them face future fiscal shortfalls focused on health-care and retirement spending, just as the federal government does. I broadly agree with you that governments should try and run a modest surplus during "boom" times (although that'll be as a result of increased taxation and a natural reduction in automatic stabilisers, rather than cuts to government spending). However, the ultimate aim of that surplus is not to pay down the public debt but instead to stabilise it - "debt smoothing", if you will. Recessions happen and in some cases they can be incredibly damaging to the public finances, and the result is a permanently higher plateau of public debt. That is how things operate in reality. Japan functions with a debt-to-GDP ratio of >200%, and issues with the Japanese economy are nothing to do with the size of its public debt. The UK economy is absolutely not in the position to be currently trying to run a budget surplus. To suggest that they should is absolutely wild. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, MixuFixit said: National debt is normal and necessary for the world economy. Better? Some debt to counter the cycle and stimulate growth and for capital expenditure is necessary. But then we should be paying down debt in boom times. The UK has just continuously grown it’s debt for a century. We are not yet quite in the Premier league of deranged borrowers like Argentina or even USA. But we’re headed for the play-offs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, johnthebaptistist said: It seems quite simple to me, I even simplified it from the normal phrase I use. Read it more slowly if you can It doesn't mean anything. Aggrandizement, enrichment, promotion, advancement fine, appeasement has no meaning whatsoever in that context. It's just typical unionist mental gymnastics to.avoid the truth that your opinion is derived from being a raging British nationalist and.thats all.There is to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, yoda said: In the words of William Gale (a senior economist during the first Bush administration, so hardly some Marxist shill) : I broadly agree with you that governments should try and run a modest surplus during "boom" times (although that'll be as a result of increased taxation and a natural reduction in automatic stabilisers, rather than cuts to government spending). However, the ultimate aim of that surplus is not to pay down the public debt but instead to stabilise it - "debt smoothing", if you will. Recessions happen and in some cases they can be incredibly damaging to the public finances, and the result is a permanently higher plateau of public debt. That is how things operate in reality. Japan functions with a debt-to-GDP ratio of >200%, and issues with the Japanese economy are nothing to do with the size of its public debt. The UK economy is absolutely not in the position to be currently trying to run a budget surplus. To suggest that they should is absolutely wild. So you basically advocate a ratchet whereby debt only ever goes up. And you, like successive UK governments will therefore secretly be a big fan of inflation to inflate away the debts. Your logic eventually leads to Argentina, Zimbabwe etc. We don’t have the worlds currency to help us like the USA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptistist Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kuro said: It doesn't mean anything. Aggrandizement, enrichment, promotion, advancement fine, appeasement has no meaning whatsoever in that context. It's just typical unionist mental gymnastics to.avoid the truth that your opinion is derived from being a raging British nationalist and.thats all.There is to it. It doesn't mean anything to you because your a typical nationalist who just sits and wibbles while your little country gets reamed, freedom my arse !! -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said: Dominic Raab stated this morning that it was deliberate, and anyway, who gives a toss about it ? The sad thing is, he's probably right. It's straight out of the right-wing populist playbook, isn't it ? Flood the news with lies, mis-truths and rumours, and some of it will stick. People will accuse them of fake news and lies, but so what ? Caught some of Raab's interview. Sounds like he has been coached to be similar to Ben Shapiro\Kellyanne Conway style of interviewing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, johnthebaptistist said: It doesn't mean anything to you because your a typical nationalist who just sits and wibbles while your little country gets reamed, freedom my arse !! No, it doesn't mean anything because those words in that order have literally no meaning at all. You said jt, explain what it means. and freaks like you want our country to be reamed forever thats your worldview you utter weirdo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: So you basically advocate a ratchet whereby debt only ever goes up. And you, like successive UK governments will therefore secretly be a big fan of inflation to inflate away the debts. Your logic eventually leads to Argentina, Zimbabwe etc. We don’t have the worlds currency to help us like the USA. Yes, that is the reality we live in. The alternative is to enact spending cuts so brutal for so long and tax rises so extreme the economy would grind to.a half and public order would break.down. We live in a.bubble, but its.the only.option there.is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: So you basically advocate a ratchet whereby debt only ever goes up. And you, like successive UK governments will therefore secretly be a big fan of inflation to inflate away the debts. Your logic eventually leads to Argentina, Zimbabwe etc. We don’t have the worlds currency to help us like the USA. That's the reality. If you think that the UK can ever realistically cut its debt to zero then you're either (a) not very bright, or (b) trolling. It might fall by a few percent here and there but never to zero. Fortunately, despite what you might have read, the impact of national debt on economic growth is based on very sketchy evidence that relied heavily on an Excel error. It's similar to the "austerity can grow the economy!" argument that cherry picks two examples and conveniently disregards the earlier instance of austerity having a damaging effect on the country's economy (just, FYI, the countries were Ireland and Denmark). I'm not actually a big fan of "inflating away" the debt - it's almost impossible to do without ending up at a state of hyperinflation. I've already said that in boom times, yes, the aim should be - via increased taxation and natural declines in welfare spending - to generate a surplus that can partly be used to pay off some debt. But when an "upswing" occurs, then we do it; not now. That would be stupid. Edited November 20, 2019 by yoda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptistist Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 34 minutes ago, Kuro said: No, it doesn't mean anything because those words in that order have literally no meaning at all. You said jt, explain what it means. and freaks like you want our country to be reamed forever thats your worldview you utter weirdo. I can assure you that is certainly not my worldview, quite the opposite, but the current population led by the SNP are quite happy to be continually put down while bleating on about independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, yoda said: That's the reality. If you think that the UK can ever realistically cut its debt to zero then you're either (a) not very bright, or (b) trolling. It might fall by a few percent here and there but never to zero. Fortunately, despite what you might have read, the impact of national debt on economic growth is based on very sketchy evidence that relied heavily on an Excel error. It's similar to the "austerity can grow the economy!" argument that cherry picks two examples and conveniently disregards the earlier instance of austerity having a damaging effect on the country's economy (just, FYI, the countries were Ireland and Denmark). I'm not actually a big fan of "inflating away" the debt - it's actually almost impossible to do without ending up at a state of hyperinflation. I've already said that in boom times, yes, the aim should be - via increased taxation and natural declines in welfare spending - to generate a surplus that can partly be used to pay off some debt. But when an "upswing" occurs, then we do it; not now. That would be stupid. Nothing, if not predictable, Yoda. Just when do think times were ever good enough to start reducing debt? Your attitude ends up at payday lenders (junk bonds) borrowing on shite terms or at the pawn shop handing over assets (to China). All the time waiting for that big win at the bookies that’s coming up at the weekend (after the next election). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Nothing, if not predictable, Yoda. Just when do think times were ever good enough to start reducing debt? Your attitude ends up at payday lenders (junk bonds) borrowing on shite terms or at the pawn shop handing over assets (to China). All the time waiting for that big win at the bookies that’s coming up at the weekend (after the next election). That's naive the economy of a state is nothing like an individual or a household. What will probably happen is eventually our debt problems will lead to our governments using our mi!itary to assauge them. WWIII when china wants paid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, johnthebaptistist said: I can assure you that is certainly not my worldview, quite the opposite, but the current population led by the SNP are quite happy to be continually put down while bleating on about independence. What? You just haver utter pish. Just shut up you total weirdo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tarmo Kink Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 What? You just haver utter pish. Just shut up you total weirdo.The term ‘irony’ has just peaked. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Isn't it ironic that those who were beating the Tories up with the debt clock as they tried to sort the economy and get it on an even keel are now the same people advocating spending £hundreds of billions on planting trees, nationalising railways and a high speed broadband give away. Even the Nationalists who were goading the Tories claiming their economic measures in deficit reduction wasn't working just want to get their hands on their own credit cards so they can piss away more money than we could ever afford. Edited November 20, 2019 by Malky3 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Kuro said: That's naive the economy of a state is nothing like an individual or a household. What will probably happen is eventually our debt problems will lead to our governments using our mi!itary to assauge them. WWIII when china wants paid. Great. You know what? Call me a wuss, but I would rather we spent 5% less and taxed 5% more, than end up playing nuclear strike chicken with China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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