dorlomin Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, WATTOO said: Gone are the days when people would make an objective decision based upon actual policies, an outline for the future and what it meant for their own constituenc UK politics has been deeply polarised for as long as anyone can remember. Most constituencies return the same party for decades. The comical irony of your post is that in Scotland, one of the most traditionally "red" parts of the UK, now has some of the most fluid 3 and 4 way contests in the UK. Its also worth pointing out that "Brexit" is a classic "wedge issue" an issue that cut across party lines and break traditional voting patterns. This is especially true in Labours Northern England and Welsh heartlands. This has been one the most talk about aspects of UK politics for the past 3 years. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/why-labour-losing-north Your comment is typical of those that are soaked in fake nostalgia for a past that never existed and almost 180 degrees to the opposite of much of current political discourse. Another smaller story is the Lib Dems now poised to hit the Tories in seats in the South they considered safe, with even Dominic Raab's seat an outside bet. So Scotlands transformation towards SNP, the Northern mid sized towns now back in play for the Tories and the home counties slipping out their grasp. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, dorlomin said: UK politics has been deeply polarised for as long as anyone can remember. Most constituencies return the same party for decades. The comical irony of your post is that in Scotland, one of the most traditionally "red" parts of the UK, now has some of the most fluid 3 and 4 way contests in the UK. Its also worth pointing out that "Brexit" is a classic "wedge issue" an issue that cut across party lines and break traditional voting patterns. This is especially true in Labours Northern England and Welsh heartlands. This has been one the most talk about aspects of UK politics for the past 3 years. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/08/why-labour-losing-north Your comment is typical of those that are soaked in fake nostalgia for a past that never existed and almost 180 degrees to the opposite of much of current political discourse. Another smaller story is the Lib Dems now poised to hit the Tories in seats in the South they considered safe, with even Dominic Raab's seat an outside bet. So Scotlands transformation towards SNP, the Northern mid sized towns now back in play for the Tories and the home counties slipping out their grasp. That's garbage though, I know lots of people who've voted Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative and SNP all at different times and in different constituencies, however nowadays the majority don't appear that they're willing to listen to any sort of argument as they've already made up their mind and will defend their position to the last. Brexit being a perfect example.............. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, johnthebaptistist said: Decent article if you believe blowing smoke up the arse of one of worst career politicians in the U.K. is 'decent' So who would you say is a "good" politician ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, WATTOO said: So who would you say is a "good" politician ?? One who didn't take their party's seats in Westminster from 6 to 56 in their first election as leader, presumably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WATTOO said: I know lots of people This is an anecdote. This assumes the people you talk to are typical of the 60 odd million UK population. Quote Brexit being a perfect example.............. You cannot read can you. Quote Its also worth pointing out that "Brexit" is a classic "wedge issue" an issue that cut across party lines and break traditional voting patterns. This is especially true in Labours Northern England and Welsh heartlands. This has been one the most talk about aspects of UK politics for the past 3 years. You live in a nostalgic fantasy for the past based on confirmation bias anecdotes. Anyone trying to suggest the 70s and 80s with their riots, strikes, Foot, Thatcher, Wilson etc was some kind of genteel era of non polarised politics is talking out their arse. Edited November 20, 2019 by dorlomin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Detournement said: Anyone talking about the national debt in 2019 needs launched into the North Sea. Why? It's £2000 billion already. We should live within our means, not dump a massive debt on our children just because we are financially incontinent. You think we should consume now and let future generations pay? Everything on fkn tick, including all Blair's PFI schools and hospitals. Sure, now would have been a good time for the UK to borrow at historically low rates - if we hadn't run up massive debts already. Borrowing not even for capital investment but just to cover year to year costs. Our politicians need the guts to say to the people either less spending or more taxes. Probably both. I would say it is the weak,lazy,selfish,delusional head-in-the-sand ostriches that should be launched into the North Sea Edited November 20, 2019 by Pet Jeden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I base most of my comments on real life situations as opposed to trying to second guess raw data which can, and is, easily manipulated to suit any sort of argument. What can't be manipulated is real peoples views who have an idea in their head that they are unwilling to listen to any sort of reason or argument to change that viewpoint. Similar to the staunch Unionist in Scotland who cannot and will not accept any sort of argument for independence as it just goes against everything that they believe in (whatever that actually may be). They hate "Sturgeon" and they hate the very idea of Scotland being able to govern itself, yet they themselves are supposedly Scottish. No amount of facts and figures will change these sort of peoples views as they've been brought up with this ingrained self doubt and inferiority complex, so the only thing they can do is resort to the old siege mentality where if you're not with them you're against them and ultimately no one likes them and they don't care. Unfortunately these sorts of attitudes are becoming more and more prevalent amongst certain areas of our society............... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Because it's the Conservative Central HQ press office, yes.It’s absolutely despicable and they’ll get away with it as well. They pulled a similar move with their “Universal Credit uncovered” spread in the metro. As if we didn’t know already, the Tories are continuously lying and misleading to the British public using fake identities. Who knows what else they are doing in this manner that we haven’t as yet discovered, but it makes me shudder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, jamamafegan said: It’s absolutely despicable and they’ll get away with it as well. They pulled a similar move with their “Universal Credit uncovered” spread in the metro. As if we didn’t know already, the Tories are continuously lying and misleading to the British public using fake identities. Who knows what else they are doing in this manner that we haven’t as yet discovered, but it makes me shudder. Dominic Raab stated this morning that it was deliberate, and anyway, who gives a toss about it ? The sad thing is, he's probably right. It's straight out of the right-wing populist playbook, isn't it ? Flood the news with lies, mis-truths and rumours, and some of it will stick. People will accuse them of fake news and lies, but so what ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, Bob Mahelp said: Dominic Raab stated this morning that it was deliberate, and anyway, who gives a toss about it ? The sad thing is, he's probably right. It's straight out of the right-wing populist playbook, isn't it ? Flood the news with lies, mis-truths and rumours, and some of it will stick. People will accuse them of fake news and lies, but so what ? The worse the fake the more it gets shared, mostly by the opposition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Some (slightly) better news from the pollsters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptistist Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 49 minutes ago, WATTOO said: So who would you say is a "good" politician ?? No one in the modern era springs to mind, especially the career politicians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I can't believe the meeja are still chewing over and analysing last night's contrived claptrap. Are they going to get to decide who will form the next government? Hearing this morning that most people decide who they will vote for after viewing these pathetic debates. I don't believe that for one minute. C'mon Scotland - there must be a better way of doing this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Good that Sky News have finally broken away from discussing the farce that was last night's "debate". Currently showing Nicola delivering a speech at Dundee East. After watching the two useless wastes of space from last night, here at last, is someone talking absolute sense. English media, please note - you might learn something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 47 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Why? It's £2000 billion already. We should live within our means, not dump a massive debt on our children just because we are financially incontinent. You think we should consume now and let future generations pay? Everything on fkn tick, including all Blair's PFI schools and hospitals. Sure, now would have been a good time for the UK to borrow at historically low rates - if we hadn't run up massive debts already. Borrowing not even for capital investment but just to cover year to year costs. Our politicians need the guts to say to the people either less spending or more taxes. Probably both. I would say it is the weak,lazy,selfish,delusional head-in-the-sand ostriches that should be launched into the North Sea Yeah but it's now two TRILLION. There is no possibility whatsoever that even a proportion of that will ever be paid off. The UK is going to.be trillions.in debt for.the rest of time. The USA is twenty trillion in debt, these countries will never not.be in debt again and it's not even an aim it's that unrealistic. so.getting all worked up about the national debt is pointless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptistist Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Who would you count as a non career politician? Probably someone who got into politics to be force for the betterment of their constituents and not to push their personal agenda for self appeasement i.e. not Nicola Sturgeon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, johnthebaptistist said: Probably someone who got into politics to be force for the betterment of their constituents and not to push their personal agenda for self appeasement i.e. not Nicola Sturgeon What is a personal agenda for self appeasement? Those words in that combination don't even mean anything. You might as well admit you're a demented British nationalist who hates Nicola sturgeon because she threatens your nationalism therefore your hate her if.she cured cancer. And the reasons you cite as being good are exactly why she got into politics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Pet Jeden said: Why? It's £2000 billion already. We should live within our means, not dump a massive debt on our children just because we are financially incontinent. You think we should consume now and let future generations pay? Everything on fkn tick, including all Blair's PFI schools and hospitals. Sure, now would have been a good time for the UK to borrow at historically low rates - if we hadn't run up massive debts already. Borrowing not even for capital investment but just to cover year to year costs. Our politicians need the guts to say to the people either less spending or more taxes. Probably both. I would say it is the weak,lazy,selfish,delusional head-in-the-sand ostriches that should be launched into the North Sea Hi Pet Jeden, You are economically illiterate. Regards, yoda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, yoda said: Hi Pet Jeden, You are economically illiterate. Regards, yoda Yup. We’ve been living beyond our means through good times and bad through the whole lifetime of anybody on P&B. But, go on, regale us with your “invest” for growth spiel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Living within our means turns tax into theft No. Within the UK’s means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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