GAD Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 26 minutes ago, Paco said: Well he’s pretty much right there. Corbyn would never have backed the election if he wasn’t boxed into it by the SNP and Lib Dems - who then ultimately abstained on the final vote because it was a whole three days later than they wanted. Both traded keeping Boris Johnson in a box for the next couple of years for a probable hard Brexit, potentially No Deal, and 10-15 more MPs. I can almost get it from the SNP with an indyref the name of the game, but I’m utterly bewildered by the Lib Dems. Yeah, Corbyn certainly is fucking useless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Corbyn always privately supported an election, according to Stephen Bush (and he's almost always spot on about these things). He apparently took some convincing to oppose the September one, too. He was just holding back because of opposition from within the PLP. I'm still a bit confused by what pro-Europeans opposing the election think the viable, better alternative was here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Paco said: Well he’s pretty much right there. Corbyn would never have backed the election if he wasn’t boxed into it by the SNP and Lib Dems - who then ultimately abstained on the final vote because it was a whole three days later than they wanted. Both traded keeping Boris Johnson in a box for the next couple of years for a probable hard Brexit, potentially No Deal, and 10-15 more MPs. I can almost get it from the SNP with an indyref the name of the game, but I’m utterly bewildered by the Lib Dems. Doubt they could have kept Johnson boxed in for much longer, apart from everything else at least one of the EU 27 would eventually refuse another extension, and the promise of an election as soon as no deal was off the table, until the the result, couldn't be ignored without Labour losing all credibility. Edited October 31, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: Johnson wanted an election, the opposition parties were daft to give him one. Not sure whether the Salmon trial played any part in the SNP thinking. There has to be an election, you can't limp on with no government like there is now. It's up to Labour to win the election, they've been screaming for one for the last couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, DrewDon said: Corbyn always privately supported an election, according to Stephen Bush (and he's almost always spot on about these things). He apparently took some convincing to oppose the September one, too. He was just holding back because of opposition from within the PLP. I'm still a bit confused by what pro-Europeans opposing the election think the viable, better alternative was here. 3 minutes ago, GAD said: There has to be an election, you can't limp on with no government like there is now. It's up to Labour to win the election, they've been screaming for one for the last couple of years. There’s a political imperative and an electoral one, they are often not the same thing. From a pro-Remain position the electoral imperative is to draw the thing out as long as possible and expose Johnson’s inability to do anything about it. It also allows his position to be weakened by things like Grenfell, Arcuri and an unwillingness to appear before select committees. His WAB would have failed by being amended beyond all recognition. The LibDems have abandoned the People’s Vote in order to press a perceived electoral advantage. They are entitled to do that but Swinson is going to look stupid when they end up as the fourth largest party again. More so if she has facilitated a Tory majority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: There’s a political imperative and an electoral one, they are often not the same thing. From a pro-Remain position the electoral imperative is to draw the thing out as long as possible and expose Johnson’s inability to do anything about it. It also allows his position to be weakened by things like Grenfell, Arcuri and an unwillingness to appear before select committees. His WAB would have failed by being amended beyond all recognition. The LibDems have abandoned the People’s Vote in order to press a perceived electoral advantage. They are entitled to do that but Swinson is going to look stupid when they end up as the fourth largest party again. More so if she has facilitated a Tory majority. This article explains better than I could why there was no other possible avenue left open: https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/10/29/election-2019-remainers-have-one-last-chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFC. Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Not a chance will the Tories lose all their country bumpkin seats in the lowlands. They'll keep at least one. Toerag Murray will keep his seat and the Lib-Dems to hold on to the Wickerman seats up North and the Islands. SNP should go all out to make this about independence. As for the overall picture, I'm not quite sure. Scotland will be almost totally yellow, however it's anyone's guess what party (or parties) will form the next government. I originally thought Tories would be biggest party and form a coalition, but I really think anything could happen, such is the nature of British politics these days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, DrewDon said: This article explains better than I could why there was no other possible avenue left open: https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/10/29/election-2019-remainers-have-one-last-chance. The following is just nonsense. “The reality is that Johnson's Brexit deal was on the verge of passing the House of Commons. It almost passed ten days ago, when MPs instead broke cover for Oliver Letwin's amendment. It nearly passed two days later, when it was narrowly saved by the rejection of the programme motion.” The WAB was never going to pass without significant amendments. The “it almost passed” is totally disingenuous; the same narrow majority that amended it and rejected the programme motion were the same ones who would have supported, at least, a customs union. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: There’s a political imperative and an electoral one, they are often not the same thing. From a pro-Remain position the electoral imperative is to draw the thing out as long as possible and expose Johnson’s inability to do anything about it. It also allows his position to be weakened by things like Grenfell, Arcuri and an unwillingness to appear before select committees. His WAB would have failed by being amended beyond all recognition. The LibDems have abandoned the People’s Vote in order to press a perceived electoral advantage. They are entitled to do that but Swinson is going to look stupid when they end up as the fourth largest party again. More so if she has facilitated a Tory majority. They aren't weakening Johnson though, nobody cares about politicians lying anymore. 10 years ago the Arcuri thing would have already finished him. It hasn't and won't. As for frustrating Brexit, yeah you can keep doing that I suppose, but it just means Johnson has an easy scapegoat, and the people's vote thing wasn't ever happening. Labour had chances to help push that through and didn't. The longer this went on the stronger Johnson looked to his base. Labour now need to step up and actually give people something to vote for instead of whining about it and blaming the fucking SNP and Lib Dems for their own failings and appalling position in the polls against the worst government the UK has ever had. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, GAD said: They aren't weakening Johnson though, nobody cares about politicians lying anymore. 10 years ago the Arcuri thing would have already finished him. It hasn't and won't. As for frustrating Brexit, yeah you can keep doing that I suppose, but it just means Johnson has an easy scapegoat, and the people's vote thing wasn't ever happening. Labour had chances to help push that through and didn't. The longer this went on the stronger Johnson looked to his base. Labour now need to step up and actually give people something to vote for instead of whining about it and blaming the fucking SNP and Lib Dems for their own failings and appalling position in the polls against the worst government the UK has ever had. We will have to agree to disagree about the tactics. As for the Arcuri thing, if the facts are found against Johnson it becomes a criminal matter and stops being about public opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 SNP and Ian Blackford for me! The Lib Dems are really targeting this seat. I've had about 25 leaflets through the door in the last month. They are going with the angle that he is not a full time MP because he has a second job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said: SNP and Ian Blackford for me! The Lib Dems are really targeting this seat. I've had about 25 leaflets through the door in the last month. They are going with the angle that he is not a full time MP because he has a second job. Could be tough for according to this, before the pay wall kicks in. Quote An informal pact has emerged to oust the second SNP Westminster leader in as many years by giving ground to the Liberal Democrats. Senior figures in the Scottish Conservatives and Scottish Labour believe that Craig Harrow, the Liberal Democrat candidate, is on course to topple Ian Blackford in Ross, Skye and Lochaber and have effectively downed tools on campaigning in the constituency. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-tories-will-sit-back-to-let-lib-dems-oust-blackford-s77mrgtxj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainspotter Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Most of those votes will come from the Tory 2nd place I'd think, who got them from the Libdem 2nd place in 2015. Could be free money betting on Blackford staying. If the SNP voters who didn't bother in 2017 decide to vote this time, Blackford would be very hard to dislodge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Blackford seems to divide opinion. His constituents (or, the limited number of them I've encountered) either like him, or really dislike him, the middle-ground doesn't seem to exist. Charles Kennedy's death will be exploited too an uncomfortable degree: it's essentially the only tactic they've got. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 The SNP won't lose this seat so I will vote Green.Isn’t that kind of thinking how we ended up with Brexit? If you want the greens to win in your area then fair enough, but if you want it to go SNP, then vote for them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrie Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Jambomo said: Isn’t that kind of thinking how we ended up with Brexit? If you want the greens to win in your area then fair enough, but if you want it to go SNP, then vote for them. I'm pro-indy but not a huge fan of the SNP. I voted up here for them last time as I was concerned the Tories would make gains. They did, but nowhere near enough. I see myself more of a natural Green voter than SNP. The fact they are also pro-Indy helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jute Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Voted SNP in every election that I have been eligible to vote in and will do so until we get independence. Agree with their other policies more than I have in the past as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Old and uneducated are the big Tory supporters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Old and uneducated are the big Tory supporters. I wouldn't describe you as uneducated, Granny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 You would need to adjust the education one for age to get a clearer picture due to the differing norms of different eras. 28% of people with degrees supporting the Lib Dems is grim but I think we can all picture these roasters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.