sergie's no1 fan Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 2 questions on this; If the Old Firm were to f**k off to the Magical Unicorn sponsored Euro League.... Would some Old firm fans who cant afford a trip to Norway or Serbia every second week start supporting one of our diddy clubs in the Scottish League? Would some of us diddy fans start supporting the Old Firm in the Euro League?Tbh I wouldn't want them supporting us and I certainly wouldn't support them.If they weren't winning as much they'd start glory hunting if their local team is doing well. They need the fix.You'd have a cracking title race and it would be funny to see both Dundee teams going bust trying to win it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Seen a link on Twitter that suggested talks were ongoing again with regards to a possible Belgian/Netherlands joint league. Would we prefer a Scotland/Ireland/Wales "Celtic Dragon" league, a Scotland/Norway/Sweden "North Atlantic" League, or a post independence Scotland/Malta/Cyprus "Ex British Colony" league? They all have their plusses and minuses... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 22/10/2019 at 14:54, GordonS said: I'm envious of countries like Norway, where 6 teams have won the league in the last 14 years, though Rosenborg have dominated most of the last few seasons. Or Denmark, with 4 different winners in the past 8 seasons. Brondby haven't won it in that time, they'll surely be competitive again at some point. Or Belgium, with a similar average attendance to what we could have without the OF, and 4 different winners in the past 5 seasons. Look at Sweden right now. Just a couple of games left, and 4 teams are separated by 3 points. A title race the likes of which we will never see in this country, unless something drastically changes. I suppose the best thing for everyone besides the bigots, would be if UEFA do introduce some kind of European Super League, and that it has multiple tiers. That way the pair of them can slot into the third tier of it to be pumped every week by PSV, CSKA Moscow and Galatasaray, and Scottish football can be more competitive without them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: So what? The state of you Email your own club and get them telt then instead of repeatedly crying your eyes out on here. Edited October 24, 2019 by Romeo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: Well yes. Maintaining the voting structure was criminal, as was the setting up of the SPL in the first place. So what? Who's arguing otherwise? Don't forget the SPL2 proposals! It's all about self interest. The larger top league is made out to be some sort of attempt at improving competition but it isn't; it's more self interest from teams desperate to grab more of the money and lock out smaller teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Romeo said: The state of you Email your own club and get them telt then instead of repeatedly crying your eyes out on here. Eh? What good would that do? Why are you suggesting I'm crying my eyes out? How foolish you look. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Don't forget the SPL2 proposals! It's all about self interest. The larger top league is made out to be some sort of attempt at improving competition but it isn't; it's more self interest from teams desperate to grab more of the money and lock out smaller teams. Totally agree. I'd have hated my club to have joined an SPL 2. I certainly wouldn't have trusted them to do the right thing, had such proposals reached an advanced stage though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: The problem with you and other fans on here is you like to point the finger at the Glasgow clubs. Aberdeen and Dundee utd didn't build on their success from the 80's only 40 years later Aberdeen are starting to get their own house in order. It's easy for fans to say why build a new stadium instead of investing in the team. We can talk about one stadium in Dundee for the clubs to share the cost. We can talk about separating the full time clubs from the part time clubs with a pyramid system in place. The success of Inverness and Ross county and the disaster of Gretna. Bulldozing hampden and building a national stadium in Stirling. But in your head and many other posters on here it's all the glasga clubs fault. In the season Dundee Utd won the league, apart from the visits of Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Dundee, the average attendance at Tannadice was 7,456. The following season, when they made the European Cup semi-final (where they were literally robbed), the combined home attendance in their European campaign was 64,295. There was little TV money then. Neither they nor Aberdeen had any sort of windfall from their successes on the pitch. And the system that allowed them to train young boys and hold on to their registration is long gone. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibeebigfly Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 7 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: France, Italy, Germany I'd give you but in England you wouldn't expect it to be two teams battling it out for a generation. Where else has only two teams won it for what 35 years is it? Nowhere I can think of, the Serbian/ex Yugoslavia is pretty bad and probably comparable to ours with the majority of fans being from Belgrade. However some other team outside the big two won it in 1998 tho. It really is a sad state of affairs and I like many of us have grown up missing the Dundee United/Aberdeen era so only know Rangers or Celtic as champions. My earlier point is our monopoly model so to speak is starting to reproduce itself all over Europe due to the champions league and unequal distribution of wealth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 On 24/10/2019 at 17:09, GordonS said: In the season Dundee Utd won the league, apart from the visits of Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen and Dundee, the average attendance at Tannadice was 7,456. The following season, when they made the European Cup semi-final (where they were literally robbed), the combined home attendance in their European campaign was 64,295. There was little TV money then. Neither they nor Aberdeen had any sort of windfall from their successes on the pitch. And the system that allowed them to train young boys and hold on to their registration is long gone. Why are you posting attendance figures? The main reason for Aberdeen and Dundee utd's success came from 2 men Ferguson and McLean. Why didn't the clubs kick on after they left their positions? There was no legacy no contingency plan. The same with Steve Clarke at Killie the level was raised even thou there was no trophy. Football changed from the late 80's going into the 90's and Aberdeen and Dundee utd got left behind, they didn't move with the times. Rangers where already ahead of the times(or so we thought), Celtic played catch up in the early 90's with the bunnet. Building on your success with a shrewd business plan was nothing to do with football at that time, pissing it up the wall and filling your own pockets was always high on the agenda. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the west curve Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I would ban clubs from loaning out players to another club in the same league. I would also ban pre contract deals for players in the same league also. Also a cap on the budget used by the clubs would also lead to a better league and would lead to more home grown players getting game time. Any transfer fees from out-with Scotland should be divided equally between the clubs or in a sliding scale depending on league placing at the end of the season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said: Why are you posting attendance figures? The main reason for Aberdeen and Dundee utd's success came from 2 men Ferguson and McLean. Why didn't the clubs kick on after they left their positions? There was no legacy no contingency plan. The same with Steve Clarke at Killie the level was raised even thou there was no trophy. Football changed from the late 80's going into the 90's and Aberdeen and Dundee utd got left behind, they didn't move with the times. Rangers where already ahead of the times(or so we thought), Celtic played catch up in the early 90's with the bunnet. Building on your success with a shrewd business plan was nothing to do with football at that time, pissing it up the wall and filling your own pockets was always high on the agenda. Serious question; how do you propose that they could have built upon their success? Going in to the 90s saw money taking a much firmer grip of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Does willy deliberately contradict himself? Edited October 26, 2019 by Melanius Mullarkey 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 7 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said: Why are you posting attendance figures? The main reason for Aberdeen and Dundee utd's success came from 2 men Ferguson and McLean. Why didn't the clubs kick on after they left their positions? There was no legacy no contingency plan. The same with Steve Clarke at Killie the level was raised even thou there was no trophy. Football changed from the late 80's going into the 90's and Aberdeen and Dundee utd got left behind, they didn't move with the times. Rangers where already ahead of the times(or so we thought), Celtic played catch up in the early 90's with the bunnet. Building on your success with a shrewd business plan was nothing to do with football at that time, pissing it up the wall and filling your own pockets was always high on the agenda. Yep, as DA baracus says, how? The success didn't come with meaningful amounts of cash. You can't have a business plan to find another Alex Ferguson or Jim McLean. How do you plan for success in a world in which you fall from about a third or quarter of the revenue of your opponents to a tenth? How do you plan to keep bringing through excellent young players and mould them into a team when the system that allowed you to keep them is scrapped? Celtic played in three European Cup semi finals in 5 years, and in one of the other years were unlucky to draw Milan early. Is the reason they're not still at that level because of a failure of planning? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 3 hours ago, GordonS said: The success didn't come with meaningful amounts of cash. You can't have a business plan to find another Alex Ferguson or Jim McLean. It's good to see you agree that money doesn't make a difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 There's probably a whole myriad of reasons that make it completely unworkable, but I'd love to see a South-American style 'apetura' and 'clausura' system: 10 team league, everyone plays everyone twice, and you decide a champion. Then have a winter break, and do it all again. In the last decade, there have been times when we've seen strong Aberdeen, Hearts, Killie, Hibs and Dundee United tems keep up with the Old Firm until Christmas, when the squad sizes mean that they fall away. Turn the league from a marathon into a sprint and give smaller sides the chance to, occasionally, have some real success. I don't really care if it seems artificial, I think most people would like to see a genuine competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 45 minutes ago, Snafu said: Indeed the new stands at Celtic Park were built with solid prayer and the bones of unicorns. And what was more important to Aberdeen and Dundee utd Ferguson and McLean or all those shiny new seats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, Snafu said: Is that a statement or a question? You can call it a contradiction or underachievement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said: It's good to see you agree that money doesn't make a difference. That's literally and exactly the opposite of what I was saying. Aberdeen and Dundee Utd didn't generate the increase in annual income from their period of success that would have seen them remain successful once the Age of Cash started in the early 90s. All the "business planning" in the world wouldn't have made any difference, in spite of what you think. The only thing that would have is money. If we had the same environment now as we did in the 80s, Hibs would have won the league with a team containing Scott Brown, Kevin Thompson, Gary Caldwell, Gary O'Connor, Derek Riordan, Steven Fletcher, Didier Agathe, (peak) Steven Whittaker and others. The Age of Cash means no team like that can be built, because they'll be picked clean by richer clubs before they ever got going - which is exactly what happened. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, GordonS said: If we had the same environment now as we did in the 80s Do you mean McClair,Nicholas,McLeod and the rat Johnston does it matter what decade it was players move on? The only difference is this guy Bosman I'm sure it effects all clubs the same. Edited October 27, 2019 by wastecoatwilly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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