Would you change our league?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

And what was more important to Aberdeen and Dundee utd Ferguson and McLean or all those shiny new seats.

They wouldn’t have attracted Ferguson away from St Mirren without the physical infrastructure and support base.

The situation was similar when he left East Stirlingshire for Paisley and Aberdeen for Salford.

[GordonS]

10 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Do you mean McClair,Nicholas,McLeod and the rat Johnston does it matter what decade it was players move on?
The only difference is this guy Bosman I'm sure it effects all clubs the same.

If you knew anything about football you'd know about the change in retaining registration.

You've taken an opinion-based position and are looking for the facts to fit it, so I'll leave you to it.

[wastecoatwilly]

4 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

They wouldn’t have attracted Ferguson away from St Mirren without the physical infrastructure and support base.

The situation was similar when he left East Stirlingshire for Paisley and Aberdeen for Salford.

 

My original point was why can't Aberdeen,Hearts or Hibs make the group stages of the Europa?
If we look at a club like AZ Alkmaar similar stadium size and have to compete with 2 giants in PSV and Ajax.  
In the last 10 years they have made the group stages or better 7 times.

Edited October 27, 2019 by wastecoatwilly

[RandomGuy.]

14 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

My original point was why can't Aberdeen,Hearts or Hibs make the group stages of the Europa?
If we look at a club like AZ Alkmaar similar stadium size and have to compete with 2 giants in PSV and Ajax.  
In the last 10 years they have made the group stages or better 7 times.

AZ Alkmaar receive around 15 million euros every season if they finish 3rd in their league, that's more than Aberdeens highest ever turnover.

Aberdeen recieve just over 2 million euros for finishing 3rd.

You're not comparing teams fairly if you're basing things on size of stadium. Celtic have a bigger stadium than Man City, why are Celtic not able to make the final stages of the CL?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

AZ Alkmaar receive around 15 million euros every season if they finish 3rd in their league, that's more than Aberdeens highest ever turnover.

Aberdeen recieve just over 2 million euros for finishing 3rd.

You're not comparing teams fairly if you're basing things on size of stadium. Celtic have a bigger stadium than Man City, why are Celtic not able to make the final stages of the CL?

Have you never read any Willy’s footballing performance posts before?

[RandomGuy.]

10 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Have you never read any Willy’s footballing performance posts before?

Ach I forgot.

I'll rephrase it. Celtic have an incredible will to win, why does that not allow them to get deep into the CL when it's more important than money?

[Dons_1988]

Ach I forgot.
I'll rephrase it. Celtic have an incredible will to win, why does that not allow them to get deep into the CL when it's more important than money?

Football knowledge IMO

[wastecoatwilly]

5 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

AZ Alkmaar receive around 15 million euros every season if they finish 3rd in their league, that's more than Aberdeens highest ever turnover.

Aberdeen recieve just over 2 million euros for finishing 3rd.

You're not comparing teams fairly if you're basing things on size of stadium. Celtic have a bigger stadium than Man City, why are Celtic not able to make the final stages of the CL?

Again expected a pop at Celtic but this thread is about making our league better.
Celtic being better in Europe is debatable plus Aberdeen hearts and Hibs should be doing better in Europe.
With sevco on their journey no team stepped up over the last 7 years to make the European group stages.
When teams from Hungray,Luxemburg,Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan are in the group stages.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Again expected a pop at Celtic but this thread is about making our league better.
 

No, I was merely responding to you having a dig at Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen, and trying to point the blame at them, when Celtic themselves also underperform against clubs with comparable average attendances. 

[wastecoatwilly]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

No, I was merely responding to you having a dig at Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen, and trying to point the blame at them, when Celtic themselves also underperform against clubs with comparable average attendances. 

In terms of the European dosh there is no reason why Aberdeen,Hearts and Hibs can't share the rewards.

[DA Baracus]

Hibs? Hearts? They aren't good enough to get in to Europe in the first place, let alone make the group stages.

The teams that put Aberdeen out were (mostly) decent. Kairat Almaty for example were signing guys for millions. How can Aberdeen compete with that? Why would anyone expect them to?

It's no longer the 1980s.

[realmadrid]

3 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Again expected a pop at Celtic but this thread is about making our league better.
Celtic being better in Europe is debatable plus Aberdeen hearts and Hibs should be doing better in Europe.
With sevco on their journey no team stepped up over the last 7 years to make the European group stages.
When teams from Hungray,Luxemburg,Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan are in the group stages.

Those teams from Hungary , Luxemburg,  Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan were also all national champions who with the champions route have a far greater chance of qualification for the Europa league than the 17 places allocated to all the non champions of all the other nations.

Totally unrealistic to expect any other Scottish team to qualify for the groups until the new set up comes in and if we got 2 champions league places there is a chance the cup winning team or 3rd placed team could make the group stages of the conference competition.

  

[Guest JTS98]

On 27/10/2019 at 07:25, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

There's probably a whole myriad of reasons that make it completely unworkable, but I'd love to see a South-American style 'apetura' and 'clausura' system:

10 team league, everyone plays everyone twice, and you decide a champion. Then have a winter break, and do it all again. 

In the last decade, there have been times when we've seen strong Aberdeen, Hearts, Killie, Hibs and Dundee United tems keep up with the Old Firm until Christmas, when the squad sizes mean that they fall away. Turn the league from a marathon into a sprint and give smaller sides the chance to, occasionally, have some real success. I don't really care if it seems artificial, I think most people would like to see a genuine competition.

The idea of making it a sprint rather than a marathon is actually a very interesting one.

And nothing is 'unworkable'. That's just a word used by those with a vested interest in protecting the status quo.

The Old Firm have a system that suits them down to the ground at the moment. They wield huge influence and use it to maintain a system of competition and income distribution that strangles the other clubs. There is absolutely no reason for the other clubs in the country to all just accept this. Yet we have built this mental wall preventing us from investigating actual solutions that would be better for all-bar-2 of our clubs.

[Guest JTS98]

On 27/10/2019 at 08:18, GordonS said:

That's literally and exactly the opposite of what I was saying.

Aberdeen and Dundee Utd didn't generate the increase in annual income from their period of success that would have seen them remain successful once the Age of Cash started in the early 90s. All the "business planning" in the world wouldn't have made any difference, in spite of what you think. The only thing that would have is money.

If we had the same environment now as we did in the 80s, Hibs would have won the league with a team containing Scott Brown, Kevin Thompson, Gary Caldwell, Gary O'Connor, Derek Riordan, Steven Fletcher, Didier Agathe, (peak) Steven Whittaker and others. The Age of Cash means no team like that can be built, because they'll be picked clean by richer clubs before they ever got going - which is exactly what happened.

And this is precisely why the current system has to die. The financial realities of the game have completely changed, yet we stick with a system of competition from more than a century ago when the system of player ownership and registration and distribution of wealth was totally different.

It's madness.

Aberdeen and United's 80s success, and the ability to maintain that success, of the 80s would be out of the question in today's game. Miller and McLeish would be off to Brighton and West Ham for a few quid after 18 months in the team. Aberdeen would replace them with someone nowhere near that standard and life would go on.

So we update everything except the actual competitions, and then we wonder why the competitions get a bit shite.

[DA Baracus]

Making it a 'sprint' would still see Celtic (and now Sevco) win it all the time.

Should anyone be (seriously) challenging them in the sort of suggested format as above going in to Christmas then they'd deploy the usual tricks of unsettling them using the media and bids/bribes for players of said clubs.

[RandomGuy.]

Even if you ended the season after 19 games Celtic would still have won the last 8  or however many, titles. Only in 14/15 would it have gone to the final day to be settled.

Edited October 29, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Making it a 'sprint' would still see Celtic (and now Sevco) win it all the time.

Should anyone be (seriously) challenging them in the sort of suggested format as above going in to Christmas then they'd deploy the usual tricks of unsettling them using the media and bids/bribes for players of said clubs.

Not sure about that at all. It would give them little wriggle room to recover from a slump. Most teams have a slump in most seasons.

In a short campaign the title could easily get away from them.

[DA Baracus]

2 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Not sure about that at all. It would give them little wriggle room to recover from a slump. Most teams have a slump in most seasons.

In a short campaign the title could easily get away from them.

Not easily, no. I suppose it could happen, but it would be rare.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, DA Baracus said:

Not easily, no. I suppose it could happen, but it would be rare.

I think the question is, it it more likely over 18 or so games or over 38 or so games?

Regardless, it's an example of the numerous different formats that are available. Of course many people scream bloody murder when the idea of not having a home and away league is brought up.

But we're already down that route. Some teams play the same team at home 3 times and once away. The 'integrity' of the league in that sense is already gone. What's another step?

Of course all leagues lack integrity anyway. Hearts lost out on a European place one year because Martin O'Neill played the reserves for Celtic at Kilmarnock to rest players ahead of a cup final. Perfectly entitled to do so, but it shafts the idea of a home and away league having some magical integrity.

Other ideas are perfectly valid and should be given consideration.

[The Other Foot]

I'm definitely up for the salary cap and drafting system. Only problem is that it would need to be changed on a global level to work. And Fifa are never going to agree to it, so it will necessitate a new global football organisation - which will probably need to emanate from the USA. Which isn't entirely out of the question, really....