Burnie_man Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, charger29 said: It's irritating that it's taken so long to get Cooper and McKenna playing together. Hopefully things looks less chaotic in these two games, helped by having two centrebacks who are decent in the air (both better than Mulgrew anyway). If they play well together then Mulgrew should be sitting on the bench for the playoff games. He's probably past his use by date now but having some experience in the squad isn't a bad thing. By the time the play-offs tick round you'd hope to have a fully fit John Souttar and David Bates available as well, and Craig Halkett if needs be. If so, Mulgrew's time could well be up. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 By the time the play-offs tick round you'd hope to have a fully fit John Souttar and David Bates available as well, and Craig Halkett if needs be. If so, Mulgrew's time could well be up.I don't think he'll be gone from the squad if he's still regualrly playing for Wigan. Could fall down the pecking order behind one of the guys you've mentioned though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, charger29 said: 25 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: By the time the play-offs tick round you'd hope to have a fully fit John Souttar and David Bates available as well, and Craig Halkett if needs be. If so, Mulgrew's time could well be up. I don't think he'll be gone from the squad if he's still regualrly playing for Wigan. Could fall down the pecking order behind the guys you've mentioned though. He doesn't strike me as the type of player who "retires" from international duty, he's been a good servant, but I can't see him being involved in the next NL campaign starting next September, time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 He doesn't strike me as the type of player who "retires" from international duty, he's been a good servant, but I can't see him being involved in the next NL campaign starting next September, time to move on.That was rumoured to be one of the reasons he went to Wigan on loan from Blackburn. Mowbray said we can't rely on you when you're travelling/playing internationals at your age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Burnie_man said: By the time the play-offs tick round you'd hope to have a fully fit John Souttar and David Bates available as well, and Craig Halkett if needs be. If so, Mulgrew's time could well be up. Bates will never be more than fraction of the player Mulgrew is. Edited November 7, 2019 by craigkillie 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Bear Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Bates will never be more than fraction of the player Mulgrew is. I like Halkett but its not certain he will be good enough to step up worth a look at though to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 58 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Bates will never be more than fraction of the player Mulgrew is. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 Bates will never be more than fraction of the player Mulgrew is.They are different types of player but in terms of effectiveness as a centre back I see Bates being more useful for Scotland than Mulgrew has been. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, Gordopolis said: 2 hours ago, craigkillie said: Bates will never be more than fraction of the player Mulgrew is. They are different types of player but in terms of effectiveness as a centre back I see Bates being more useful for Scotland than Mulgrew has been. Mulgrew isn't really a centre back though. I'll be honest and say that i'm not sure what position he's played since leaving Celtic but I've always thought of him as a left back / holding midfielder. He's been played at centre back for Scotland because our other options there are mince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Bates was mediocre at Rangers and got a pass because the rest of the team was rubbish, flopped in the German second division and is now on loan to Sheffield Wednesday where there is absolutely no indication that he'll get a game once he is back fit, given that he didn't before he was injured. I have no idea what it is that people see in him, because I think so far in his career he has shown much less than several other defenders that we have available who are roughly the same age. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: Bates was mediocre at Rangers and got a pass because the rest of the team was rubbish, flopped in the German second division and is now on loan to Sheffield Wednesday where there is absolutely no indication that he'll get a game once he is back fit, given that he didn't before he was injured. I have no idea what it is that people see in him, because I think so far in his career he has shown much less than several other defenders that we have available who are roughly the same age. He certainly didn't flop at SV Hamburg where the fans actually thought he was one of their better players last season, they even labelled him "The Ginger Ramos". "By February 2019 he was described as a "favourite" at the club, having started in 13 of 20 Hamburg's league games. Football writer Daniel Busch commented that Bates "plays like a 'no-nonsense centre-back' and already has strong physical attributes. Having improved his passing so quickly, he will further improve and become a more rounded player". In May 2019, he suffered a ligament part rupture in his left ankle during the away game against SC Paderborn 07, effectively ending his season" In the end he made 28 appearances overall last season for them (25 league games). There was a bit of a surprise when they sent him out on loan, although he has just turned 23. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 Yeah that was what I was trying to get at regards the comparison. Mulgrew is a skilful player with the ball at his feet and is a good set piece taker. Bates is a lesser player in both of those respects. However, I'd much rather have bates in central defence than Mulgrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Wasn't Mulgrew originally a left midfielder or attacking mid? Or have I completely made that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Bates was mediocre at Rangers and got a pass because the rest of the team was rubbish, flopped in the German second division and is now on loan to Sheffield Wednesday where there is absolutely no indication that he'll get a game once he is back fit, given that he didn't before he was injured. I have no idea what it is that people see in him, because I think so far in his career he has shown much less than several other defenders that we have available who are roughly the same age. You have a bizarre obsession with him. He's certainly gone much further in his career than the likes of findlay and halkett who are a similar age. Remember what I said about not assuming you know anything and analysing the decisions of those that do? This is a good exqmple. There's a reason Bates earns double what halkett does and triple findlay. He actually did well enough at rangers for them to try to keep him and express disappointment when he left and did well in Germany too until the last six weeks of the season when his team.suffered a collapse and he got.dropped. At Sheffield Wednesday he was.fit.for about one game so.I don't see where you're getting an indication one way or the other. They thought enough of him to sign him you seem to be forgetting ,(and could easily have signed halkett findlay or j souttar instead). I think your obsession with him.is weird. You seem.to.hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Plus Bates did well in the two games he played for Scotland and looked a lot less shaky than mulgrew does these days. He may never be as good a player as mildew has been but he's a better CB. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: Wasn't Mulgrew originally a left midfielder or attacking mid? Or have I completely made that up? He was a left back when he arrived at Aberdeen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 On 05/11/2019 at 12:37, craigkillie said: He played the last game he was available for. Was cup-tied at the weekend. He's obviously the next best left-back after Robertson and Tierney, so I'm not sure what the issue is. Jonny Hayes being preferred to Taylor tonight. If fit furniture choice LB should be kingsley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 45 minutes ago, Kuro said: Jonny Hayes being preferred to Taylor tonight. If fit furniture choice LB should be kingsley. Turns like a wardrobe though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Mulgrew had plenty of good games at home for Scotland, generally against teams who would sit in and were happy to leave our defenders on the ball. That was why multiple Scotland managers kept selecting him. The downfall was when he was left in there against better sides and clearly wasn't a good enough defender to cope with it. Our problem is we still haven't found another centreback who is nearly as good at passing it our from the back as Mulgrew, so we haven't been able to phase him out. I think some might have hoped John Souttar could fill that void, but he hasn't stayed fit enough to prove his capability. If Mulgrew is happy to stay on as a bit part player in squads, I'd happily keep him in. We have far more defenders in the build of Bates to choose from. Though he did surprisingly well in his short stint for Scotland, and certainly wasn't reported as a flop in Germany. Our main issue now is a lack of game time for Scotland of our most likely centrebacks. We've barely been able to select one of McKenna, Souttar, Bates ( maybe Halkett) recently, let alone start building a partnership, which is the biggest concern ahead of the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Bear Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 On 07/11/2019 at 18:08, Merkland Red said: Turns like a wardrobe though. Injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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