November Squad (vs Cyprus & Kazakhstan)

[RobbieD]

53 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

See folk who seem to be trying to start a Caulker hype train...have they actually watched him recently? Specifically when he was being pretty underwhelming for Dundee?

Halkett, Gallagher, Findlay and the like have all been consistently better than him at Premiership level.

Don't get me wrong I'll put my cards on the table and say I've no idea how his form has been since he's moved to Turkey. My knowledge of Turkish football extends to being a Nadir Cifcti stan and no more. While I can't argue Caulker's an absolute unit and he's played with "big" clubs some of the descriptions/expectations here don't really match with his form at Dens.

Him selling the jerseys against us at Dens was the sort of thing that folk would be crucifying Mulgrew for had it happened on Thursday night.

 

His form at Dens was fine. Was constantly being linked to bigger clubs the entire time he played for us.

He plays for the top team in Turkey just now. He’s played in every game except one and that’s the only game they’ve lost this season. He must be doing something right.

[capt_oats]

47 minutes ago, RobbieD said:

His form at Dens was fine. Was constantly being linked to bigger clubs the entire time he played for us.

He plays for the top team in Turkey just now. He’s played in every game except one and that’s the only game they’ve lost this season. He must be doing something right.

Fair enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling him pish. I'm really just going on his performances against us and comments from folk like @Ludo*1 in the Dundee thread at the time that didn't really match the "better than what we have" line that seems like it's being floated.

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Fair enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling him pish. I'm really just going on his performances against us and comments from folk like @Ludo*1 in the Dundee thread at the time that didn't really match the "better than what we have" line that seems like it's being floated.

He was very inconsistent. You could see that he was a class above but equally it was plain to see that he just couldn't be arsed at times. 

[craigkillie]

7 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Agreed.

The best national teams have players who have played together from youth level. Recently we've had guys like Gallagher, Cooper, Palmer, Fleck, Cairney, Shinnie, Mackay-Steven and Kevin Mcdonald in and around squad. These guys are all 28+ and have 21 caps between them.

It's now at the stage where even with the so called "experienced" guys, we're getting absolutely pumped. Time to bring through a few of the promising U21s and start actually trying to build a team for the future. It might take a couple of years and we might take a few more pumpings but if we can go forward with a regular squad then we give ourselves a better chance in the long-run. There's no use persisting with some of the guys who clearly haven't been good enough in the past and won't be good enough in the future.

 

None of the guys you've listed are important players for Scotland, and most them were nowhere near good enough when they were younger, which is why they have so few caps.

Grant Hanley, Barry Bannan and James Forrest are all a similar age and have nearly 100 caps between them, having been identified at various points as the next young talents we needed.

We have been bringing through the best U21s. Tierney, Taylor, McKenna, Souttar, Bates, McTominay, Cadden, Burke, McBurnie and Brophy and Morgan were all eligible for the last U21 campaign and have all been capped for the first team already. McTominay, Tierney and McKenna are already into double figures in terms of caps.

Robertson, Christie, Findlay, McGinn, Fraser, Kingsley, Cummings, Shankland and Paterson all came form the previous crop, and four of them are already key players for us.

Basically, lots of guys have been given chances, and the better ones have hung around while others have drifted away. But some players will be late bloomers for whatever reason, and you don't want to rule them out just because they didn't come through the U21s at some point.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by craigkillie

[Dunning1874]

11 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Grant Hanley, Barry Bannan and James Forrest are all a similar age and have nearly 100 caps between them, having been identified at various points as the next young talents we needed.

And as if to prove the point that we won’t magically became good if we just start capping a load of 17 year olds so they’ve got 100 caps by the time they’re 30, people still call Hanley pish for his performances when he was 20 while saying he’s past it and has been around too long, at the age of 27.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

And as if to prove the point that we won’t magically became good if we just start capping a load of 17 year olds so they’ve got 100 caps by the time they’re 30, people still call Hanley pish for his performances when he was 20 while saying he’s past it and has been around too long, at the age of 27.

There was someone saying he shouldn't be in the squad because the likes of Gallagher are the future. Hanley is a year younger than him.

Edited October 14, 2019 by craigkillie

[Aufc]

This is nonsense...if youre good enough it shouldn't matter who you're currently playing for. Shankland is an example of this and even the likes of Foden/Hudson-Odoi being called up for England when, at the time, they weren't playing regularly for their club sides.
 
I'd like to see Clarke experiment with some of the call ups with an eye on the future. Get some of the younger guys in like McLennan, Gilmour, Hornby etc and maybe even get Dykes involved to get him Scottish-ised as his hold up play is as close to Steven Fletcher we've probably got available at the moment.

Why the f**k would experiment with the team? He have two games to get a settled team before the play off. Absolute madness

[Aufc]

66% of fletchers 9 Scotland goals came against Gibraltar, and arguably at that time he had better midfielders to provide him with the service he needs
As you said he's 33 now, he might be able to hold the ball up (debatable now) but has he the legs to press the opposing defences as everyone knows if scotland dont press high they end up fucking it up defensively 
If anything scotland need two up front to not allow opposing centre halves time to bring the ball out and play it from the back, id go with 352 and play burke and mcburnie up top, have them chase the opposing defenders

So who are you dropping from the team to accommodate these two strikers?

I can tell you right now that it is a terrible shout

[MeadowArab]

If everyone was fit and available, I'd pick the following squad;
Goalkeepers
Marshall, McLaughlin, McGillivray.
Defenders
Tierney, Palmer, Robertson, Taylor, Hanley, McKenna, Findlay, Cooper.
Midfielders
McGinn, McGregor, McTominay, Armstrong, Fleck, McLean, Christie, Gilmour, Forrest, Fraser, Snodgrass, Johnston
Stirkers
Burke, Shankland, McBurnie.

This but I'd add Mulgrew purely because he can play in so many positions. It's handy to have a utility player.

[MeadowArab]

Whatever happened to the defender Stephen Kingsley? Was that his name?

Also what's Chris Martin's form at Derby like just now?

[Rodhull]

11 minutes ago, MeadowArab said:

Whatever happened to the defender Stephen Kingsley? Was that his name?

Also what's Chris Martin's form at Derby like just now?

Kingsley seems to be playing semi regularly at Hull now. Not sure if the games he’s missed has been down to form or injuries.

Martin was out of favour and/or loaned out at Derby for quite a while but got a chance recently and has scored 3 in their last 4 games I think.

[TheScarf]

Due to Sky’s 9 inch throbber for Leeds you get to see Cooper most weeks and he always looks utter shite.

[Ray Patterson]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Due to Sky’s 9 inch throbber for Leeds you get to see Cooper most weeks and he always looks utter shite.

I think last season 20 of their league matches were on TV that's getting on for OF numbers.

Edited October 15, 2019 by ArabAuslander

[RossCountyFan14]

Marshall
Kelly
McGillivray

Palmer
O’Donnell
Gallagher
Cooper
Lindsay
Finlay
Mckenna
Robertson
Tierney

McGinn
McTominay
Fleck
McGregor
Armstrong
Gilmour
Fraser
Forrest
Christie
Burke

Shankland
Martin
McBurnie
(Griffiths if back)

[QwaarJet]

As much as I'd like to see it, not a chance Gilmour is in the squad unless he at least a semi-regular with the senior Chelsea team.

[54_and_counting]

11 hours ago, Aufc said:

 

So who are you dropping from the team to accommodate these two strikers?

I can tell you right now that it is a terrible shout

 

How about stephen odonnell for one, then you have the other striker, play a 352, theres nothing to lose trying something different is there? 

[ICTChris]

Snodgrass retires from international football

[Desp]

2 hours ago, QwaarJet said:

As much as I'd like to see it, not a chance Gilmour is in the squad unless he at least a semi-regular with the senior Chelsea team.

Why?  He's clearly a very talented player, so why not get him in as early as possible?  He's started a League Cup game at Chelsea and came off the bench in a couple of other games I'm sure.  There's absolutely no harm in getting him in and around the squad.  Will someone like Billy Gilmour reach learn much from playing in the u21's at an empty Tynecastle every couple of months?

Look at the Welsh.  They've got 17/18 year olds who are on the fringes of Chelsea/Man City squads getting full caps because they know those players will be the future of the team, even if they end up dropping down to a lesser EPL team or English Championship side.  The spine of their Euro 2016 team all got caps at young ages and they stuck with them. 

We've got a bunch of players in our squad in their mid 20s who've got less than 10 caps because we wait forever and a day to bring them into the set-up. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Desp

[Desp]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

Snodgrass retires from international football

Thanks for the hat-trick against Malta, but...

[craigkillie]

Why?  He's clearly a very talented player, so why not get him in as early as possible?  He's started a League Cup game at Chelsea and came off the bench in a couple of other games I'm sure.  There's absolutely no harm in getting him in and around the squad.  Will someone like Billy Gilmour reach learn much from playing in the u21's at an empty Tynecastle every couple of months?
Look at the Welsh.  They've got 17/18 year olds who are on the fringes of Chelsea/Man City squads getting full caps because they know those players will be the future of the team, even if they end up dropping down to a lesser EPL team or English Championship side.  The spine of their Euro 2016 team all got caps at young ages and they stuck with them. 
We've got a bunch of players in our squad in their mid 20s who've got less than 10 caps because we wait forever and a day to bring them into the set-up. 

Gilmour isn't even remotely comparable with any of those mid-20s players with a handful of caps who you're talking about.

Look at where each of those guys were in their teens:

MacGillivray - Harrogate Town
Devlin - Hamilton Accies
Gallagher - Clyde
O'Donnell - Partick Thistle
Palmer - Sheffield Wednesday (in League 1)
Fleck - Rangers
Russell - Dundee United

Bain - Aberdeen (never played)
Cooper - Hull
Jack - Aberdeen
McLean - St Mirren
Cairney - Hull
Shinnie - Inverness
Mackay-Steven - Liverpool/Fulham
McDonald - Dundee
McNulty - Livingston

With the exception of Mackay-Steven, who left Liverpool at 19 and didn't play a senior game anywhere until he joined Airdrie, none of these guys were at big clubs at that age.

At the moment the only real comparisons for Gilmour are Darren Fletcher and Danny Wilson, who were both on the fringes for big clubs at that age and both got plenty of chances for Scotland. It worked out for one and not so much for the others.

I'm pretty sure the Wales squad will still have the squad fodder like the guys above who are just there to plug gaps because there's nobody else.