Motherwell vs St Mirren

[capt_oats]

17 hours ago, Demented Zebra said:

Motherwell fans don't sound overly confident which is strange given the great start you have had.

Tbh, it's still early enough in the season to be asking the question of whether we're actually good or not. Bear in mind that of our 4 wins so far 2 have come against hilariously under-performing Hibs and Hearts sides and the other two against St Johnstone who are sat bottom of the league without a win and a completely schizo Accies.

As I say, it's early in the season so while we've had (for the most part) an XI that largely picks itself we'll be missing Jake Carroll at left back again and Liam Donnelly who's been part of a very settled midfield 3. We've not seen much of any of the potential alternatives to Mr. Goals (Mark O'Hara, Casper Sloth and Jamie Semple) so it'll be interesting to see who replaces him and how that affects the balance of the midfield.

To echo @Swello's point, we're absolutely capable of winning this one.

We've played 12 competitive games so far this season and failed to score in only one (Livi away) while we've 3 clean sheets in 7 league games. It's probably worth mentioning to the BWA poster talking about our goals against column that 5 (FIVE) of the ten conceded came in one game against Celtic. Take that out as an outlier and it's a bit more respectable (also at the moment we're one of only 3 teams in the league with a + goal difference).

However, having said all that while for 35 mins we were the best team on the park against Celtic for the remaining 55 we very much weren't (though the wheels only really came off when their 3rd went in) and through a mixture of naivety and complacency we managed to chuck a lead and have a man sent off in the space of 15 mins against County. We also rather meekly failed to turn up against Hearts in the LC and it took an excellent penalty save to make sure we won against St Johnstone last week.

There have been loads of positives about us this season but it'd be pretty naive not to acknowledge the fact that we've chucked in some cheap goals and admit that we're still miles from the finished article.

I think it's fair to say that most of us have seen better Motherwell sides than this chuck away daft points in exactly this sort of fixture so for the moment it's a case of being fairly grounded and realistic about where we are just now.

Edited October 3, 2019 by capt_oats

[Marinello]

Excellent post by Cpt Oats .

Yup 'Well fans are heartened by our start but we know to our cost the dangers of getting too far ahead of ourselves. The County experience is the perfect example .

Strangely because of the County game I feel we will be better placed to get the win against the buddies as will be fully guarded against complacency.

Also feel that it's a big opportunity for O'Hara to come in as Donnelly's replacement  and banish the memory of his 'give away' for County's second goal.

Can see a very difficult game against a well organised team with a 1-0 win to us the outcome.

Ain't putting the life savings on it though

[Swello]

50 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

However he didn’t start well and that Hearts League Cup game was a real eye opener, he looked absolutely miles out his depth that night. Since then though he’s had some impressive cameos off the bench, obviously scored against Hibs and Hearts so there’s signs that he’s adapting to this level. 

Reckon he’s probably earned another start and as I said, I don’t think taking Seedorf out for a game or two would do him any harm at this stage either. 

As a result of us being in the Main Stand in Perth on saturday (no idea why we were), I got a rare chance to see what Robinson was up to during the game and it was interesting to me that of all the players over 90 mins, Hylton seemed to be driving him mental more than most after he came on. The shiter against Hearts in the LC showed up Hylton's positional awareness in the worst way and on Saturday, Robinson was on to him the whole time about it. At our level, you can't just be a good dribbler and finisher - you need to do the other boring stuff or managers simply won't trust you/pick you.

Hylton looked brilliant in the LC groups against lower division opposition but against better coached teams, he's still a little bit short of where he needs to be IMO. I remember Marvin was similar for a long time after he got here - you could see why we'd signed him but it took a lot of coaching to get him to the point where he was excellent at our level and made us a fortune. I'm still optimistic about Hylton but it may be after new year before we see him being a more rounded player.

I get the impression that Seedorf has been better coached in the past and as a result, seems to be improving the boring side quicker, hence why he's starting so far even though he hasn't offered much attacking-wise in the last 2 games.

[Casagolda]

23 minutes ago, Swello said:

I get the impression that Seedorf has been better coached in the past and as a result, seems to be improving the boring side quicker, hence why he's starting so far even though he hasn't offered much attacking-wise in the last 2 games.

On this, was it a knock that forced him off on Saturday or was he just pish? Never really seen anyone mention it. 

Also, did Ilic do anything in his comeback cameo appearance? Think that was his first time he’s been seen since that  Hearts game. 

[pozbaird]

We have an excellent keeper, Broadfoot has slotted in like he’s never been away, and our defence are harder to score against than many recent Saints teams. Midfield has been solid, if unspectacular, but it is upfront that we are struggling. Obika and Morais look short of confidence in front of goal. Missed opportunities, rushed shots, sclaffs.... can’t see Motherwell pumping a few past us, but equally, just can’t see where our goals are coming from. Going for another 0-0, as we shitfest our way to top flight safety by making other sides lose the will to live. Easy the Mirren, Scotland’s nil-nil kings.

[Swello]

21 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

On this, was it a knock that forced him off on Saturday or was he just pish? Never really seen anyone mention it. 

Also, did Ilic do anything in his comeback cameo appearance? Think that was his first time he’s been seen since that  Hearts game. 

Ilic was pretty poor, didn't offer anything apart from a mad dive where he rolled over 5 times - Seedorf was poor too and I suspect that was why he was hooked but he has the excuse that he took studs in the back....

[buddie06smfc]

If Danny Mullen starts, 5-0 St Mirren. If Danny Mullen doesn’t start, 5-0 St Mirren.

[Coventry Saint]

1 hour ago, buddie06smfc said:

If Danny Mullen starts, 5-0 St Mirren.

Dives for and against?

[buddie06smfc]

Dives for and against?

A sore point when you consider the robbery at Fir Park late last season. Mullen manhandled in the box off the ball and also booted in the air. Neither adjudged to be a penalty. A strong referee required.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

On 02/10/2019 at 10:05, Demented Zebra said:

 Where is best to park the car. Thanks for any info.

Not sure there's anywhere in Motherwell with 10,000 parking spaces.

[Demented Zebra]

59 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Not sure there's anywhere in Motherwell with 10,000 parking spaces.

Very helpful so have to thank you for that.. 

[Swello]

 

3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Not sure there's anywhere in Motherwell with 10,000 parking spaces.

 

 

2 hours ago, Demented Zebra said:

Very helpful so have to thank you for that.. 

For more info, Ref: Captain Sensible, Circa 2006.

Spoiler

Civic Centre and surrounding area will do you for parking

 

[capt_oats]

23 hours ago, Swello said:

As a result of us being in the Main Stand in Perth on saturday (no idea why we were), I got a rare chance to see what Robinson was up to during the game and it was interesting to me that of all the players over 90 mins, Hylton seemed to be driving him mental more than most after he came on. The shiter against Hearts in the LC showed up Hylton's positional awareness in the worst way and on Saturday, Robinson was on to him the whole time about it. At our level, you can't just be a good dribbler and finisher - you need to do the other boring stuff or managers simply won't trust you/pick you.

Hylton looked brilliant in the LC groups against lower division opposition but against better coached teams, he's still a little bit short of where he needs to be IMO. I remember Marvin was similar for a long time after he got here - you could see why we'd signed him but it took a lot of coaching to get him to the point where he was excellent at our level and made us a fortune. I'm still optimistic about Hylton but it may be after new year before we see him being a more rounded player.

I get the impression that Seedorf has been better coached in the past and as a result, seems to be improving the boring side quicker, hence why he's starting so far even though he hasn't offered much attacking-wise in the last 2 games.

22 hours ago, Swello said:

Ilic was pretty poor, didn't offer anything apart from a mad dive where he rolled over 5 times - Seedorf was poor too and I suspect that was why he was hooked but he has the excuse that he took studs in the back....

I've a degree of sympathy with Ilic tbh. It's a drum I've banged before but he's a naturally left sided player being chucked on to play as a right winger. He may be humpty but he's humpty and being played out of position.

Listening to Robinson's interview on Sportsound the other night his comments about "coachability" got me thinking about your point of distinction between Seedorf and Hylton (and by extension Ilic). Given the fact they've chipped in with goals it's and have had some positive performances in the league neither Seedorf or Hylton are quite lost causes but equally, last week being a good example you'll find games where they'll be ineffective - a point that is true of most wingers at this level.

All this got me thinking about James Scott and moving him out wide right. Save setting up Cole's miss of the season by and large he looked to have had a shitemare against St Johnstone 'on the ball' but at the same time the fact that he was there and giving Tanser something to think about meant that even if his first touch put the ball out the park at times in a tactical sense (highlighted vs Hibs) we were getting something out of him (that wasn't necessarily the case with Seedorf on the left).

Given the natural inconsistency with Seedorf/Hylton/Illic I wondered if we might see Jamie Semple brought into the equation at some point for that position simply on the premise that as an Academy player he may pick up the specifics of what Robinson's looking for that bit quicker. I know Ross has identified him as an #8 (and was of the view that Craigan using him as a wide forward wasn't getting the best out him) but let's face it Polworth has that position on lock and it was interesting to see that Semple started wide left with the Reserves against Dunfermline with a midfield 3 of Sloth, Maguire and O'Hara - and scored from that position (we used him as an #8 for the second half and he scored again, he scored during the week against United as well fwiw).

I don't think Semple is a natural winger but then while Scott may be comfortable wide right our initial plan seemed to be to try him as a #9 to begin with. It may be a case of making the most of the players we've got available.

Edited October 4, 2019 by capt_oats

[Al B]

I really like Scott out wide. I think given that full-backs are generally a bit on the smaller side and he's a 6ft 3 shithouse of a boy who can also play, then straight away he's up against a direct opponent who can't ignore him for a second. The fact that he'd generally have such a physical advantage over a full-back will do wonders for his confidence and willingness to have a go....whereas if he was playing the 9 he's suddenly up against guys who are physically equal at least, and that confidence that he's going to get any joy will drop.

Clearly we have to accept that his age and inexperience comes with periods or even full games where it's just not working for him, but out wide his attributes are enough to keep his morale high. As a 9 I just think those phases will drain the confidence right out of him.

To use our own players as an example, you can imagine James Scott absolutely roasting Richard Tait in training, he's bigger...stonger...faster...has good footwork. Put him up against big Declan though and start knocking balls into him...there's only going to be one winner there.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Al B

[Swello]

10 minutes ago, Al B said:

I really like Scott out wide. I think given that full-backs are generally a bit on the smaller side and he's a 6ft 3 shithouse of a boy who can also play, then straight away he's up against a direct opponent who can't ignore him for a second. The fact that he'd generally have such a physical advantage over a full-back will do wonders for his confidence and willingness to have a go....whereas if he was playing the 9 he's suddenly up against guys who are physically equal at least, and that confidence that he's going to get any joy will drop.

Clearly we have to accept that his age and inexperience comes with periods or even full games where it's just not working for him, but out wide his attributes are enough to keep his morale high. As a 9 I just think those phases will drain the confidence right out of him.

Agree completely with this - but also just getting him 30 or 40 odd games in the first team at his age in a position where he isn't under the same expectation will probably put him in a better place for when he is asked to play the 9 role next season..

[capt_oats]

6 minutes ago, Al B said:

I really like Scott out wide. I think given that full-backs are generally a bit on the smaller side and he's a 6ft 3 shithouse of a boy who can also play, then straight away he's up against a direct opponent who can't ignore him for a second. The fact that he'd generally have such a physical advantage over a full-back will do wonders for his confidence and willingness to have a go....whereas if he was playing the 9 he's suddenly up against guys who are physically equal at least, and that confidence that he's going to get any joy will drop.

Clearly we have to accept that his age and inexperience comes with periods or even full games where it's just not working for him, but out wide his attributes are enough to keep his morale high. As a 9 I just think those phases will drain the confidence right out of him.

Fully agree, we're getting far more out of Scott wide than we would have been just lumping the ball to him as a #9. As it is we seem to have solved the out-ball issue Robinson was bemoaning after the Hearts LC game when he was talking about us not having a physical target man.

I had absolutely no idea that Semple was/is 6ft. I had always thought of him as a wee guy...turns out he's not (his profile has him as 183 cm). Neither Seedorf and Hylton are particularly tall and watching Seedorf last week he seemed to struggle a bit physically against Ralston. I'm not banging a drum to get Semple starting but I'm curious to see if he might be a viable alternative for the left wing similar to what we've done with Scott on the right.

[Al B]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

Agree completely with this - but also just getting him 30 or 40 odd games in the first team at his age in a position where he isn't under the same expectation will probably put him in a better place for when he is asked to play the 9 role next season..

Absolutely, I was actually just about to edit in a comment to my post saying basically the same thing; that it's not to say he won't end up a 9 and maybe not before too long, but I think it makes much more sense to develop him in an area where he'll get a bit more joy and his confidence stays high. Saying that though, I actually see Scott developing into what we thought and hoped Chris Cadden would become.

Number 9 for Motherwell FC is absolutely NOT the place you want to be trying to find your feet in the game as a kid.

[jimmy boo]

1-0 to us in a tight game.

Saints aren't playing at Ibrox tomorrow bud[emoji106]

[YassinMoutaouakil]

2 hours ago, jimmy boo said:

Saints aren't playing at Ibrox tomorrow bud

Neither are West Ham tbf

[Dosser0209]

Tomorrow will be a really tough game imo, for us to win I think we need to score early which will force St Mirren to come out and play. I’d imagine our only change would be O’hara in for Donnelly. Will go for a 2-1 win for the well, big Devante getting a double for the good guys

COYW