New powers

[Jeff Venom]

Ah right so local authorities within one UK government based in London = good

 

Independent (local) Scottish government based in Edinburgh = bad

 

Kk

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

None. 
I'd rather see Holyrood closed. The fewer career politicians we have with their snouts in the trough the better. 
 

That's Westminster you fucking zoomer.

[Malky3]

9 hours ago, GordonS said:

Name a power that Scottish local authorities had in 1998 that they don't have now.

On the other side, they now have power over prudential borrowing and business support that they didn't have then. Labour increased hypothecation from 1999 but the SNP scrapped it almost entirely in 2007.

It's Holyrood, not Hollyrood. It's named after the holy cross of St Margaret.

So you oppose proportional representation. Cool cool. FPTP puts more power in the hands of parties rather than electors, because it lets them put who they want in safe seats. And the vast majority of all elected members are "rejected" by the majority of voters, as they get less than 50% of the vote in constituency. For example, in 2011 the SNP won Edinburgh Southern with 29.4% of the vote. It was their worst performance in the whole of Scotland, but because the vote split among the parties, they won. Are the votes of the other 70.6% not to count for anything? AMS allows the final result to reflect more accurately how the country actually voted. If you want to reduce the parties' power, campaign for open lists. 

FWIW, if we'd had FPTP for Scottish Parliament elections, Labour would have had an outright majority in 2007, even though they got 32.2% of the vote and finished second to the SNP. If we had FPTP now, the SNP would have an absolute stranglehold on the Scottish Parliament, dominating every committee. How the hell anyone can support a system as blatantly undemocratic and unrepresentative as that is a mystery to me.

If the Scottish Parliament is an "abject failure in democracy", why is it far more valued by the Scottish public than Westminster? Why has confidence in it grown while confidence in Westminster fallen? I could quote any number of surveys showing that, but I'm sure you know how to use Google. 

As for democracy, Scotland has always had separate education and legal systems from England, but you want a party who got one MP elected in the entire country in 2010 and 2015 in charge of them? You think it MORE democratic that the parties who finished a distant third and fourth in 2010 would have all the power over domestic affairs in Scotland, locking out the parties that finished first and second, than having a Scottish Parliament? Come on, you're a dogmatist but surely you're not that daft.

Most people are right about most things, but you seem to be on a one-way mission to be wrong about literally everything.

Oh dear! 

First let me deal with the nonsense that it's more valued by Scottish people. 

Turnout in the last few elections

UK Parliament General Elections - 

2017 - turnout was 66.4%  

2015 - turnout was 71.1%  

Scottish Parliament Elections - 

2016 - turnout was 55.6% 

2011 - turnout was 50.4% 

Then to deal with the rest of your rubbish. I don't know how old you are but I am old enough to remember what Scotland was like before devolution. Local Authorities ran the hospitals and schools in their regions. We had local police authorities with good local knowledge from call handlers, dispatch staff, and from local officers who patrolled the area. Since the Scottish Parliament came into being they authority in these regions has been diminished, or superseded by by Hollyrood as Ministers at the Scottish Parliament take control out of their hands. 

These days we've got dispatch staff in Bilston taking emergency phone calls who have no idea where Dissy Corner is or what the Heilanman's Umbrella is in Glasgow and conversely staff in Motherwell and Govan who have no idea where local landmarks are in Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Perth, or Dumfries never mind in the smaller towns and villages in the more remote areas. Since the inception of Police Scotland there have been many notable incidents where dispatchers are sending police to the wrong city, never mind the wrong street - something that simply didn't happen when we had regional service centres. 

Under SNP rule the Scottish Parliament took the decision to implement a recruitment freeze in NHS Scotland. Sturgeon was Health Minister at the time. It was a centralised decision that failed to take into account the employment needs of the individual health boards and it's a decision that meant that health boards ever since have had to spend way over the odds on agency cover whilst many of those who were affected by the recruitment freeze found jobs abroad, or in the private sector instead. 

Don't believe me? Read this article about the power grab by Holyrood. 

https://www.itv.com/news/border/2019-07-03/devolution-difficulties-for-holyrood/

Now - about me being wrong about literally everything - perhaps you'd care to re-appraise that? It seems you made an absolutely cock up of your post. 

I think it's far more democratic to have people directly represent their electorate. What is undoubtedly undemocratic is putting a candidate up for election - that electorate rejecting that individual, and that individual then being given the job of representing them anyway cause their party has them highly ranked on the list system. By definition that is absolutely undemocratic. 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Malky3

[Malky3]

7 hours ago, Jeff Venom said:

Ah right so local authorities within one UK government based in London = good

 

Independent (local) Scottish government based in Edinburgh = bad

 

Kk

 

 

Might as well deal with this horror of a post too while I am at it. 

If you were able to read - and I know it's not really your fault you can't after all the SNP have fucked Scottish education - you'd know that I have said many, many times that fundamentally I would usually support Scottish Independence but that I find I am unable to because the Nationalists have failed to provide any credible proof that Scots won't be substantially worse off financially in an Independent Scotland. 

To put it succinctly - right now with Scotland in a United Kingdom we get £13Bn more to spend than we raise in revenue thanks to the Barnett Formula. If we were independent and ruled from Holyrood we would not be able to benefit from the wealth of London, the South East of England or the East Of England where they run budget surpluses and we would have to find £13Bn worth of cuts. 

Hopefully your drug addled mind will be able to grasp that logic - I don't hold out much hope for you though. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Oh dear! 

First let me deal with the nonsense that it's more valued by Scottish people. 

Turnout in the last few elections

UK Parliament General Elections - 

2017 - turnout was 66.4%  

2015 - turnout was 71.1%  

Scottish Parliament Elections - 

2016 - turnout was 55.6% 

2011 - turnout was 50.4% 

Then to deal with the rest of your rubbish. I don't know how old you are but I am old enough to remember what Scotland was like before devolution. Local Authorities ran the hospitals and schools in their regions. We had local police authorities with good local knowledge from call handlers, dispatch staff, and from local officers who patrolled the area. Since the Scottish Parliament came into being they authority in these regions has been diminished, or superseded by by Hollyrood as Ministers at the Scottish Parliament take control out of their hands. 

These days we've got dispatch staff in Bilston taking emergency phone calls who have no idea where Dissy Corner is or what the Heilanman's Umbrella is in Glasgow and conversely staff in Motherwell and Govan who have no idea where local landmarks are in Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Perth, or Dumfries never mind in the smaller towns and villages in the more remote areas. Since the inception of Police Scotland there have been many notable incidents where dispatchers are sending police to the wrong city, never mind the wrong street - something that simply didn't happen when we had regional service centres. 

Under SNP rule the Scottish Parliament took the decision to implement a recruitment freeze in NHS Scotland. Sturgeon was Health Minister at the time. It was a centralised decision that failed to take into account the employment needs of the individual health boards and it's a decision that meant that health boards ever since have had to spend way over the odds on agency cover whilst many of those who were affected by the recruitment freeze found jobs abroad, or in the private sector instead. 

Don't believe me? Read this article about the power grab by Holyrood. 

https://www.itv.com/news/border/2019-07-03/devolution-difficulties-for-holyrood/

Now - about me being wrong about literally everything - perhaps you'd care to re-appraise that? It seems you made an absolutely cock up of your post. 

I think it's far more democratic to have people directly represent their electorate. What is undoubtedly undemocratic is putting a candidate up for election - that electorate rejecting that individual, and that individual then being given the job of representing them anyway cause their party has them highly ranked on the list system. By definition that is absolutely undemocratic. 

 

I'm not sure what value there is in arguing with one of the special people, but here we go...

1) Turnout doesn't make any difference to what I said about which parliament people approve of more and trust more. It's a non sequitur (look it up).

2) Local authorities have NEVER run hospitals in Scotland - unless you mean the glorified nursing homes. I don't know where you got that idea from. I guess you might be thinking on NHS Boards - those still exist, and they all have councillors from the councils in their areas on their Board of Directors. NHS Boards and local authorities are required to work together on Health and Social Care Partnerships. Your mention of hospitals is gibberish.

3) Schools - um, in case you haven't noticed, they're still run by local authorities. This is how the SNP's first education minister lost her job, because the SNP promised something they weren't in a position to deliver. The Scottish Government plays less of a role in schools now than the Scottish Office did in the mid 90s. I don't know what you think you're on about here.

4) Police - yep, the role of local authorities was downgraded to stuff like Local Scrutiny Committees when Police Scotland was formed. You get this one. Hard to call this a consequence of devolution when it occurred 14 years after devolution started, but never mind. Prior to 1999 strategic control of all police authorities rested with the Secretary of State for Scotland - which Scotland didn't elect. FWIW, those concerns about losing local knowledge happened when the UK government abolished the counties and burghs in 1975 and introduced the regions. This created forces like Strathclyde, which was half the size of Scotland.

5) A return to health boards - these have been under the control of Ministers since 1948. Pay and recruitment policy has ALWAYS been set centrally. Again, no idea what you're on about.

6) That article you link to? Doesn't describe a single thing that has been taken from local authorities. Not one. Read it and see.

7) Your defence of FPTP has been laughed out of existence by everyone with any interest in elections. If one candidate gets 29.9%, and the next gets 27.9%, you want to give 100% of the power to the people who voted for the slightly bigger loser and 0% to those who voted for literally anyone else. I took time to give you plenty of examples of why that's ludicrous, but I see that you're doubling down.

 

Doubtless you'll put up a fight, because you're one of those people who forms opinions first and then searches for the facts to support them. I can't guarantee I'll bother replying again though.

 

 

[Antiochas III]

Do you think Malky knows the electorate is larger in Scottish Elections than the General Elections when he compared turnout percentages? 

[Glenanover]

On 01/10/2019 at 07:01, Day of the Lords said:

On 01/10/2019 at 01:43, Malky3 said:

None. 
I'd rather see Holyrood closed. The fewer career politicians we have with their snouts in the trough the better. 
 

Obvs. You're the absolute epitome of a servile, cretinous doormat. We'd expect nothing less.

And you are the absolute epitome of a Scottish nationalist in which you dare to disagree with. A horrible disgusting, brainwashed piece of shit. 

[Anonapersona]

1 hour ago, Glenanover said:

And you are the absolute epitome of a Scottish nationalist in which you dare to disagree with. A horrible disgusting, brainwashed piece of shit. 

I starting to think you have an elaborate shrine to Malky in your basement. Disturbing stuff.

[Glenanover]

9 minutes ago, Anonapersona said:

I starting to think you have an elaborate shrine to Malky in your basement. Disturbing stuff.

Not as disturbing as independence would be.

[Anonapersona]

24 minutes ago, Glenanover said:

Not as disturbing as independence would be.

Yeah, it really is.

Creepy.

[Glenanover]

1 hour ago, Anonapersona said:

Yeah, it really is.

Creepy.

But are we not the same person ?

A few twats on here think we are

[John Lambies Doos]

1. The power to unilaterally hold Indyref 2.
2. The power to implement Indyref 2.
3. The power to grant England*  its independence . Whether it wants it or not.
*with apologies to Wales & NI
 

f**k Wales

[Pet Jeden]

20 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Might as well deal with this horror of a post too while I am at it. 

If you were able to read - and I know it's not really your fault you can't after all the SNP have fucked Scottish education - you'd know that I have said many, many times that fundamentally I would usually support Scottish Independence but that I find I am unable to because the Nationalists have failed to provide any credible proof that Scots won't be substantially worse off financially in an Independent Scotland. 

To put it succinctly - right now with Scotland in a United Kingdom we get £13Bn more to spend than we raise in revenue thanks to the Barnett Formula. If we were independent and ruled from Holyrood we would not be able to benefit from the wealth of London, the South East of England or the East Of England where they run budget surpluses and we would have to find £13Bn worth of cuts. 

Hopefully your drug addled mind will be able to grasp that logic - I don't hold out much hope for you though. 

Surely self determination and self esteem trump possibly being 5% or 10% better off ( at the moment)?  I'm sure you would be better off if you kept living at your parents house for the next few decades - but is it really what you want to do?

As for benefiting from the wealth of the London and the south-east, you have to bear in mind that that "wealth" is boosted by a huge concentration of civil service employment, disproportionate  amounts of housing benefit and help-to-buy government money and tourists attracted by almost every national collection being housed there. Not to mention sleekit classification of projects like Crossrail as "national" and therefor UK government financed. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Pet Jeden

[Dan Steele]

Which new powers? All the powers that a modern day independent country has to enable it to function properly, and free from the dangerous position we seem to be getting dragged to by a UK government seemingly looking to return to some kind of mythical England ruling the waves.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

And you are the absolute epitome of a Scottish nationalist in which you dare to disagree with. A horrible disgusting, brainwashed piece of shit. 

That doesn't even make sense you fucking imbecile [emoji23]

[GordonS]

On 02/10/2019 at 06:36, Antiochas III said:

Do you think Malky knows the electorate is larger in Scottish Elections than the General Elections when he compared turnout percentages? 

Not sure that would make a difference? The turnout is the percentage of the electoral roll for that election. It's disturbing how many people aren't on the roll at all, but that's a separate issue. 

The difference seems to be that to most voters Scottish elections are still quite new; there is far, far more media coverage of a UK election than a Scottish election; and most perceive Westminster to be more powerful and important than the Scottish Parliament, though they like and trust it less.